Thread: 3.0 & Weapons / Armor.

Originally Posted by QiLymePye

Can someone tell me what the difference is between horizontal and vertical progression?

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/02...l-progression/

Try reading this.

Originally Posted by Zumi

Basically what people liked in FFXI was vertical progression that offered very very small upgrades.

XIV released incremental increases yes. Gear in XI got negated but it took on average 6+yrs for content to be rendered irrelevant. (aka content lasted 3 whole expansions as relevant endgame)


Pure horizontal content is as bad as pure vertical that I will agree with, there has to be a drive to do the content. Which is why almost no one did savage mode in XIV... there was no reward.

What people liked in XI was the fact there was little content negation. Like you said people could still wear gear from 6yr content. IN sky there was still a few BIS armor pieces 4expansions later.

But sea content was also BIS, Dynamis gear was BIS, Limbus gear was BIS, Salvage gear was BIS, HNM gear was BIS, ZNM gear was BIS, Crafted gear was BIS, BCNM/KSNM gear was BIS <= all at the same time.

This allowed XI's content to build on itself. IT was more then 2 dungeons, 1 primal and 1 raid at endgame. It was 100+ instance boss fights, 10 2-3hr long 20+man raids, over 200 open world boss fights, 30ish 30min-1hr raids, 3 sets of tiered open world force spawns (sea, sky, znm). And every single one of these improved your character some how... nothing was vanity only. It is not an exaggeration to say XI pre-abysea had over 25,000hrs of endgame content if you were a guild, you literally could run guild events 80hrs a week and not even be able to do all the endgame that was available before the resets happened.

Yes XIV is new and obviously above is after about 6yrs of development. But the way XIV is being developed it will follow WoW's path which means only a small fraction of the game <10% will be relevant once you are at true endgame. Currently at endgame XIV has the following content. Shiva (Takes 2 weeks to get all the gear tops) and Coil 10-11-12-13 <= THIS IS IT. That is the problem with XIV's model. Once you are at the top you are out of things to do. Once you can clear coil you can finish everything XIV has to offer in 8hrs then you have to wait until Tuesday to honestly play again (so 8hrs vs 80hrs).

My expectations:

• ilevel 130/135 gear will be the expected entry level endgame gear for Heavensward.
• New 51 to 60 craftable White Gear with ilevels equal to their level requirements will be added for DoW, DoM, DoH and DoL. New craftable 1, 2, 3, and 4 star green gear will be added.
• The current i55 to i90 High Level dungeons (and i100 dungeons added in 2.5) will be the majority of the 50 to 60 leveling dungeons. Meaning that they stay a major source of gear of that range.

Originally Posted by Meier

Yep, they said it. It was a community rep who said it. They said something along the lines of "we let the dev team know about you guys wanting horizontal progression, and they know, seeing what they can do" etc.

found it: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1838321

yoshida also stated that the ilvl is raising way too high, too fast, and he wants to slow it down, for horizontal stuff. woooot.

They said they will pass the feedback on so it is a promise? God you are entitled.

I hope dungeons are handled different, with each patch adding iLvl dungeons with useless gear and crafting mats was kind of a bummer.

Originally Posted by Zumi

First of all horizontal progression is an oxymoron. It doesn't exist.

I agree with everything in your post but this. Horizontal progression occurs when your ability to complete some content improves without automatically improving your ability to complete other content and basically increases the "width" of content you can access.

Currently we do have some slight Horizontal progression gear wise. There are two major bits of content with completely different gear needs Coil and PvP. BiS in one is not BiS in the other.

We kind of need more content with different gear needs in order to have true "horizontal progression."

Lore-wise it'd be kind of strange seeing upcoming peasant clothes be stronger than say, High Allagan gear that the super-advanced Allagan Empire used to conquer much of the world and enslave world destroying entities like Bahamut.

But I guess it can't be helped.