3.0 & Weapons / Armor.

**Meier** · 12-18-2014 07:56 AM

Yep, they said it. It was a community rep who said it. They said something along the lines of "we let the dev team know about you guys wanting horizontal progression, and they know, seeing what they can do" etc.

found it: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1838321

we did submit the feedback that some of you had for more horizontal progression on rewards.

yoshida also stated that the ilvl is raising way too high, too fast, and he wants to slow it down, for horizontal stuff. woooot.

**Kuwagami** · 12-18-2014 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by Meier

snip

your quote doesn't say anything more than "the team got your feedback". Doesn't mean they'll do anything about it

**QiLymePye** · 12-18-2014 08:54 AM

Can someone tell me what the difference is between horizontal and vertical progression?

**Deathscythe343** · 12-18-2014 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by QiLymePye

Can someone tell me what the difference is between horizontal and vertical progression?

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/02...l-progression/

Try reading this.

**Zumi** · 12-18-2014 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by QiLymePye

Can someone tell me what the difference is between horizontal and vertical progression?

First of all horizontal progression is an oxymoron. It doesn't exist. But its what people call what they did in FFXI. In FFXI they released a ton of gear sets over time from various different events, and because of the way FFXI worked you could swap gear at any time, so you could swap in a bunch of haste gear when you were trying to get tp then you could swap in a bunch of str for your weapon skill, if you had to cast like utsusemi you swap in your fast cast gear, using berserk swap to your enhance berserk gear, using warcry swap to warcry gear ect . FFXI often would release gear from a new event they had a cap on how good the stats could be and often there would be so many pieces of gear that were worthless because gear you could get form sky from 5 years ago was still better. Then SE comes along and releases something that is about 1% better then what currently is available but puts it behind a huge grind, for example salvage, this is in fact vertical progression because its like very slightly better, and not all the pieces of gear are better.

If you didn't care about that 1% better dps you could get then you could just ignore the content and still use your 7 year old gear.

Basically what people liked in FFXI was vertical progression that offered very very small upgrades.

**Xatsh** · 12-18-2014 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by Zumi

Basically what people liked in FFXI was vertical progression that offered very very small upgrades.

XIV released incremental increases yes. Gear in XI got negated but it took on average 6+yrs for content to be rendered irrelevant. (aka content lasted 3 whole expansions as relevant endgame)

Pure horizontal content is as bad as pure vertical that I will agree with, there has to be a drive to do the content. Which is why almost no one did savage mode in XIV... there was no reward.

What people liked in XI was the fact there was little content negation. Like you said people could still wear gear from 6yr content. IN sky there was still a few BIS armor pieces 4expansions later.

But sea content was also BIS, Dynamis gear was BIS, Limbus gear was BIS, Salvage gear was BIS, HNM gear was BIS, ZNM gear was BIS, Crafted gear was BIS, BCNM/KSNM gear was BIS <= all at the same time.

This allowed XI's content to build on itself. IT was more then 2 dungeons, 1 primal and 1 raid at endgame. It was 100+ instance boss fights, 10 2-3hr long 20+man raids, over 200 open world boss fights, 30ish 30min-1hr raids, 3 sets of tiered open world force spawns (sea, sky, znm). And every single one of these improved your character some how... nothing was vanity only. It is not an exaggeration to say XI pre-abysea had over 25,000hrs of endgame content if you were a guild, you literally could run guild events 80hrs a week and not even be able to do all the endgame that was available before the resets happened.

Yes XIV is new and obviously above is after about 6yrs of development. But the way XIV is being developed it will follow WoW's path which means only a small fraction of the game <10% will be relevant once you are at true endgame. Currently at endgame XIV has the following content. Shiva (Takes 2 weeks to get all the gear tops) and Coil 10-11-12-13 <= THIS IS IT. That is the problem with XIV's model. Once you are at the top you are out of things to do. Once you can clear coil you can finish everything XIV has to offer in 8hrs then you have to wait until Tuesday to honestly play again (so 8hrs vs 80hrs).

**Kiara** · 12-19-2014 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by Xatsh

XIV released incremental increases yes. Gear in XI got negated but it took on average 6+yrs for content to be rendered irrelevant. (aka content lasted 3 whole expansions as relevant endgame)...

What people liked in XI was the fact there was little content negation. Like you said people could still wear gear from 6yr content. IN sky there was still a few BIS armor pieces 4expansions later.

But sea content was also BIS, Dynamis gear was BIS, Limbus gear was BIS, Salvage gear was BIS, HNM gear was BIS, ZNM gear was BIS, Crafted gear was BIS, BCNM/KSNM gear was BIS <= all at the same time.

This allowed XI's content to build on itself. IT was more then 2 dungeons, 1 primal and 1 raid at endgame. It was 100+ instance boss fights, 10 2-3hr long 20+man raids, over 200 open world boss fights, 30ish 30min-1hr raids, 3 sets of tiered open world force spawns (sea, sky, znm). And every single one of these improved your character some how... nothing was vanity only. It is not an exaggeration to say XI pre-abysea had over 25,000hrs of endgame content if you were a guild, you literally could run guild events 80hrs a week and not even be able to do all the endgame that was available before the resets happened.

Yes XIV is new and obviously above is after about 6yrs of development. But the way XIV is being developed it will follow WoW's path which means only a small fraction of the game <10% will be relevant once you are at true endgame. Currently at endgame XIV has the following content. Shiva (Takes 2 weeks to get all the gear tops) and Coil 10-11-12-13 <= THIS IS IT. That is the problem with XIV's model. Once you are at the top you are out of things to do. Once you can clear coil you can finish everything XIV has to offer in 8hrs then you have to wait until Tuesday to honestly play again (so 8hrs vs 80hrs).

Totally agree Xatsh.

Well said.

This is the problem with XIV's model right now. You have a tiny amount of "end game" per week and NOTHING else for end game raiders. More variety and venues for players to challenge every week is a good thing.

I hope we get Horizontal Progression in 3.0. Yoshi P make it happen, please.

**Zumi** · 12-19-2014 05:02 AM

Originally Posted by Kiara

Totally agree Xatsh.

Well said.

This is the problem with XIV's model right now. You have a tiny amount of "end game" per week and NOTHING else for end game raiders. More variety and venues for players to challenge every week is a good thing.

I hope we get Horizontal Progression in 3.0. Yoshi P make it happen, please.

Besides doing coil, I find myself with not enough time to do everything the game has to offer, getting all crafts to 4 star takes a crazy amount of time, doing gardening. Actually I didn't like about FFXI is doing sky 5 years after it was out because it still dropped some of the best items. To me its fine only doing the newest raid doesn't force you do to a bunch of boring content you done 100 or more times. Since FFXIV follow the wow system of 1 top tier raid that works just fine for me. I still don't have enough time for all the crafts gardening ect.

I just don't see SE drastically changing the way the game works to be more like FFXI. How would they let people get more gear because this game has no gear swaps.

**Nicobo** · 12-18-2014 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Zumi

First of all horizontal progression is an oxymoron. It doesn't exist.....

I can't agree more, really glad that someone willing to pointout the fact.

Btw, If someone wants "horizontal progression", why not give it a wider view?
In ARR, players grow their characters not limited to single job or a piece of weapon (ie. relic),
there are multi-classes, achievements, crafting log, gathering log, fishing record, honor, housing, pvp rank, 3GC, chocobo, mog delivery, beastman relationships, complete every leve, complete every quest...etc
all of above progress simultaneously and the progression is accumulated forever. ^^;

**Ultimatecalibur** · 12-18-2014 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Zumi

First of all horizontal progression is an oxymoron. It doesn't exist.

I agree with everything in your post but this. Horizontal progression occurs when your ability to complete some content improves without automatically improving your ability to complete other content and basically increases the "width" of content you can access.

Currently we do have some slight Horizontal progression gear wise. There are two major bits of content with completely different gear needs Coil and PvP. BiS in one is not BiS in the other.

We kind of need more content with different gear needs in order to have true "horizontal progression."

Thread: 3.0 & Weapons / Armor.

Thread Tools

Search Thread

Display

Hybrid View