An open discsusion on the consequences of death

[Dreamer]

o.O
Are we playing the same game?

Keep in mind that your character is going to eventually want to reach R50 in a bunch of different classes. The road to R50 with one class isn't terribly long, but when you multiply that several times, it adds up.

[Wevlum]

I'm kind of stunned that this is a priority to be fixed right now considering everything else that needs fixing. I'm also worried that when player numbers are currently down a lot compared to how high they used to be, we're prioritising penalties rather than incentives for players.

Yes we probably do require stronger penalties in order to enforce people to think and plan fights as well as giving people a reason to fear death. However, I don't think this is a fantastic time to implement that, considering that we're having to fight to keep players at the moment and also considering that there isn't currently a lot you *can* plan in fights yet beyond the initial buffing and healers spamming heal.

So really, I would have thought this would have been an issue better addressed after the combat/class/major game changes take place and as cliché as it is; you catch more bees with honey not vinegar and we need those bees right now.

[zaviermhigo]

This game doesn't need more bees though. Its needs more content. Bees do nothing good for a game. (Not a flame, just a pun on the bee comment). I just wanted something to make people go "maybe this game isn't for me because its kinda hard" and there's none of that to divert the people I hate playing games with away from this game. MMOs were places for somewhat nerdy people to find each other and hang out and enjoy gaming experiences together. If you randomly party in XIV, those are the type of people this game attracts, those people can't nerd out on anything good ;p If the game was harder a lot of these scruffy nerf herders would go away. I don't like the gaming community when I'm in game right now and its not much of a community which is sad. Just my opinion.

[Wevlum]

Don't bee cheeky!

In all seriousness though, ideally you attract the types of people you want via the good qualities of your game. Currently we're looking at people not playing due to a lack of good game play and we're talking about excluding people by adding stronger penalties to dying. I'm just worried about the player numbers becoming much lower and the community completely dying.

Currently I don't really think there's enough tactical or 'skill' choices involved in combat to warrant extra punishment for dying in a pretty poor combat system. I just don't think it's the right time yet, lets get people playing before we start saying who's allowed to play.

[Maat]

Well the reason i think Yoshi P is staying clear of XP loss is because of the reaction from the idea in the thread earlier... People think XI's XP loss was just too too harsh and to some degree i agree. I also strongly agree with having a feeling of wanting to keep your character alive. For Yoshi P's idea to work he will need to have severe gear degradation when returning and even sometimes breaking. It also has to be a moderately important too significant cost of trying to recover what has been broken or damaged. This I believe will definitely keep people wanting stay alive

[Jinko]

There needs to be a reason to NOT die. Currently, people just rush in to battles with little to no strategy and when someone dies, they LAUGH, brush it off and run back to continue fighting. In 11, if you died, you were upset. Why? Because dying meant something. People did their best not to die. In 14, people think it's fun to die....this is not cool at all.

So you would rather people be angry and argue amongst party members over something trivial than just laugh it off and have fun.

THIS is the reason why FF11 was such a pain to play and will be the reason why this game will fail if they listen to people like you.

Look at any other MMO out there and you will see that death is a very minor inconvenience, nobody wants to play a game that is kicking them in the balls all the time, we already have fatigue, leve restrictions, accessory restrictions and countless more.

[Nakiamiie]

I am totally against loss of SP, experience, ranks and levels. These are something we work hard to get and is the character itself. Losing SP, experience, ranks or levels is just really frustrating and really hinder the sense of progression, at least in my case as a casual gamer.

I much prefer the current deterioration of equipment, some sort of sickness upon resurrection, and/or other little things like that. These things, if put correctly in-game, prevent people from getting killed and quickly coming back into battle. Thus, making it very difficult to win fights by getting killed and coming back healthy to finish off the monster. It can't be done if the monster is full as well or there was enough time to have the party wipe/kill the monster without you.

SP or experience penalty is a strong point that made me leave FFXI, it became too time consuming to gain back lost experience from multiple caused by a poorly managed party or accidental death (inattention from RL). I don't enjoy having my carrot pulled out of my mouth as I eat it (metaphor).
Coming back and seeing the monster fully healthy is enough to make me reconsider and fight something more appropriate (or try again without RL distraction).

I, too, understand the need to have some sort of penalty upon death, but not one that takes away our hard earned work.

[Dargoth_Draconia]

They could do a system similar to Everquest Online Adventures on the PS2 and maybe in other EQ titles. A EXP debt system where a certain % of the EXP you made went towards the debt until you was out of debt. That was my favorite death penalty of all the MMOs I played. It was the same as losing EXP but not having to delevel like in FFXI.

[DannyBlue]

so... what you sp loss guys are saying is that you'd welcome a change that means you have to play the same stretch of game over and over with the same result? I'm just going to say it -- you are morons.

[DannyBlue]

I am totally against loss of SP, experience, ranks and levels. These are something we work hard to get and is the character itself. Losing SP, experience, ranks or levels is just really frustrating and really hinder the sense of progression, at least in my case as a casual gamer.

I much prefer the current deterioration of equipment, some sort of sickness upon resurrection, and/or other little things like that. These things, if put correctly in-game, prevent people from getting killed and quickly coming back into battle. Thus, making it very difficult to win fights by getting killed and coming back healthy to finish off the monster. It can't be done if the monster is full as well or there was enough time to have the party wipe/kill the monster without you.

SP or experience penalty is a strong point that made me leave FFXI, it became too time consuming to gain back lost experience from multiple caused by a poorly managed party or accidental death (inattention from RL). I don't enjoy having my carrot pulled out of my mouth as I eat it (metaphor).
Coming back and seeing the monster fully healthy is enough to make me reconsider and fight something more appropriate (or try again without RL distraction).

I, too, understand the need to have some sort of penalty upon death, but not one that takes away our hard earned work.

seriously, why the hell do we need "consequences" for death anyway? Think about it! It's a f***ing VIDEO GAME! And since when have any FF's beside XI or any other games besides these relatively new MMO's you are all whipped by had permanent consequences for dying??!!

I say NO! That is why The Lord Jiminy Christmas invented the goddamn RESET BUTTON!!! ...So that people could have FUN playing video games, not make them an extension of their crappy real lives. Wake up, folks; real people play games to have fun.