An open discsusion on the consequences of death

[Kilta_Firelotus]

ok so we have 3+ topic on death penalties.

Why? with as much power leveling that happen in ffxi, WoW, Aion. Why do people even want harsher penalties?

Sorry but i'm a bit shocked as well as a tad upset. I've been hated, insulted, made funb of, harassed, bullies, rumors were made about me becauise I hated power leveling. On the 4 servers I was on in ffxi everyone seems to require a PL. Or a LS mate forced it on you.

So why do ppl now want a death penalty that is a bit harsh when all that will happen in Power leveling, cuz ppl want the most exp/hr?

[Kaedan]

ok so we have 3+ topic on death penalties.

Why? with as much power leveling that happen in ffxi, WoW, Aion. Why do people even want harsher penalties?

Sorry but i'm a bit shocked as well as a tad upset. I've been hated, insulted, made funb of, harassed, bullies, rumors were made about me becauise I hated power leveling. On the 4 servers I was on in ffxi everyone seems to require a PL. Or a LS mate forced it on you.

So why do ppl now want a death penalty that is a bit harsh when all that will happen in Power leveling, cuz ppl want the most exp/hr?

Because power leveling has nothing to do with it.

The point of Power leveling was to gain XP as quickly as possible. PLs were there to heal constantly so they could constantly pull IT mobs for the best XP/hour gain. It had nothing to do with death or death penalties.

[Anathiel]

You know...I just had an idea. Why not give players a small bonus from exp worthy mobs that compiles with every mob killed, when the player dies it resets back to zero. You could do this combination with gear degradation and weaknesses. Or not, whatever. I feel its more productive to reward someone for not dying. Raise would not effect the bonus reset. If you died it would always go back to zero. The exp bonus would cap at a certain percentage but at the same it wouldn't ever degrade either as long as you didnt die.

Think exp chain that stays with you, but at a much slower rate of accumulation.

[Kaedan]

You know...I just had an idea. Why not give players a small bonus from exp worthy mobs that compiles with every mob killed, when the player dies it resets back to zero. You could do this combination with gear degradation and weaknesses. Or not, whatever. I feel its more productive to reward someone for not dying. Raise would not effect the bonus reset. If you died it would always go back to zero. The exp bonus would cap at a certain percentage but at the same it wouldn't ever degrade either as long as you didnt die.

Think exp chain that stays with you, but at a much slower rate of accumulation.

While a valid idea when the party's goal is leveling, it does nothing to discourage death when farming for items or completing boss/mission content. When your goal isn't SP, then the "loss of bonus" becomes meaningless.

[Anathiel]

While a valid idea when the party's goal is leveling, it does nothing to discourage death when farming for items or completing boss/mission content. When your goal isn't SP, then the "loss of bonus" becomes meaningless.

That's why its a good idea, it doesn't discourage a random helpful person from wanting to help with a mission so they enjoy a boss fight. It also doesn't discourage a group of friends from trying to take on a tough NM. It does discourage people who are "hardcore" from dying because they want to level all that more quickly.

Besides, rewarding someone for satying alive is way better than punishing someone for dying.

Edit: it also makes casuals not want to die either it might even mean more to them because a bonus like that would be extremely useful with limited playing time, I didn't mean to insult hardcore gamers lol.

[Kaedan]

That's why its a good idea, it doesn't discourage a random helpful person from wanting to help with a mission so they enjoy a boss fight. It also doesn't discourage a group of friends from trying to take on a tough NM. It does discourage people who are "hardcore" from dying because they want to level all that more quickly.

Besides, rewarding someone for satying alive is way better than punishing someone for dying.

Edit: it also makes casuals not want to die either it might even mean more to them because a bonus like that would be extremely useful with limited playing time, I didn't mean to insult hardcore gamers lol.

You're missing the point. Your idea only works when the goal is leveling. People aren't always playing to level. Sometimes they are playing to farm items, they are playing to kill NMs for gear, they are playing to beat Missions (not implemented yet, but will be). And once people hit cap, then your idea becomes pointless.

[Anathiel]

You're missing the point. Your idea only works when the goal is leveling. People aren't always playing to level. Sometimes they are playing to farm items, they are playing to kill NMs for gear, they are playing to beat Missions (not implemented yet, but will be). And once people hit cap, then your idea becomes pointless.

No man, you're missing the point. Missions, NM's, items...they're the content nobody should be afraid to do, That is what makes the game fun.

You put in a bonus that somebody has worked a month to achieve for leveling chances are...they want to keep it. Or maybe standing around jueno for a month trying to get CoP missions done wasn't a big deal to you, but it was a big deal to a lot of people. I always wanted to do the arch angel mission for zilart but couldn't find that many people to just pick up and go.

[Nephera]

Because power leveling has nothing to do with it.

The point of Power leveling was to gain XP as quickly as possible. PLs were there to heal constantly so they could constantly pull IT mobs for the best XP/hour gain. It had nothing to do with death or death penalties.

I think she means professional power leveling services which usually pop up in games where the grind is too harsh, or organized power leveling runs where a player basically does it for ingame currency, a death penalty that reduces your xp gained would be directly involved in this because it puts an extra edge on the grind.






lets look at it like this


If we give an SP penalty, are you ever going to tolerate when somebody else made a mistake?

because if not, soloing is going to be the next big thing.

[Neptune]

90% of the lost subscriber base was expecting ffxi elements. i will just leave it at that....

I have an idea. Why don't we clone Argh 600,000 times and he and his clone army can pay FFXIV's subscriber fees so SE can afford to make us a good game that has nothing to do with FFXI's obsolete game mechanics.

Kaedan, I think we see eye to eye on other things, but law enforcement is probably not the place to go for progressive debate about psychology. B.F. Skinner (who coined positive reinforcement) said the main thing people learn from punishment is how to avoid being punished. As usual, the term is hard to properly put into action. Positive reinforcement would be some kind of bonus to staying alive in multiple battles in a row. That is real positive reinforcement. Like, a buff that increased your damage or healing and stacked up for every five battles you won in a row.

I was gonna say I hope they don't listen to any ideas in this thread about penalties but I wouldn't mind some form of positive reinforcement.

[Kaedan]

No man, you're missing the point. Missions, NM's, items...they're the content nobody should be afraid to do, That is what makes the game fun.

What is the point of playing a game that has no consequences?

I guess Baseball, Football, Soccer, Basketball... these games are stupid because they have consequences to failure. It can't possibly be fun to play the game, since they're punished when they lose. I know, let's just make it so that every team gets to put tickets in a hat to enter the Superbowl, World Cup, etc. Then every time you win, you get to put another ticket in. Then at the end of the season, they draw two tickets at random for which teams are in it.

Afterall, we can't allow for anything that might discourage the teams, like losing. Gotta use Positive reinforcement, baby! This way, everyone has a chance!