New Relic Progression

[Shadowkept]

Would like to see some feedback from the forum community on the current state of the Relic progression. I am not concerned so much with the time or gil commitment and I doubt many of you are either, but I wondering how you feel about having unique content for Relic progression.

By content I don't mean unique quests that recycle content everyone is already participating in, but unique encounters, that could take the form of scripted fights like the Main Scenario quests, or a unique boss fight, or a unique dungeon. Something difficult but not insane that brings relic wielders together to do content that is unique to relic progression. Maybe something that will help shed this idea that anybody with enough time/patience/gil can have a relic and there is no player skill required to obtain.

[Coatl]

Eh. I never really understood why some would want unique and exciting content that struck the balance between casual and hardcore players. The game already has something like that, it's called Extreme Primals/Second coil. The original relic required you to beat the deadly three's amped up versions and it was no small feat at the same of release.

But SE didn't build the relic upgrades in line with difficult content because they probably didn't want to gate a relic weapon through well..difficult content!

As to the stigma of Relic owners being unskilled and casual, it's mostly untrue anyways. If you have time to put into a relic then you have more than enough time to coil. Most of the Raiders have relics too.

[Almalexia]

As to the stigma of Relic owners being unskilled and casual, it's mostly untrue anyways. If you have time to put into a relic then you have more than enough time to coil. Most of the Raiders have relics too.

You also need 7 others who are also somewhat competent. It's only a matter of time after that. Relics offer a way to progress without depending on 7 others; you can accrue atma, materia, light, gil, and zodiac pieces at your own pace.

As for unique content, the first leg of relic quest introduced Hydra and Chimera instances--these are the only pieces of unique content in the entirety of the relic/zodiac series to date. Everything else depends on grinding existing content.


I would like to see a return to 1.0's formula of a) unique, challenging content (Ifrit EX/and relic leves), and b) revisiting old content in a new way (Garu with no KO, 17m dungeons). Now I know mandatory speed runs are opposed to XIV's design philosophy and community opinion, so it doesn't have to be exactly that. Maybe a DPS-, tank-, and healer-only WP run, or a MGS dungeon run where you have to avoid all mobs. Something familiar, but mechanically different.

[Destinova]

The quest to upgrade to the zodiac vessel is better than the light farm and atma grind imo.

[StouterTaru]

The problem with unique content for the relics is that it either needs to be solo, or there needs to be an incentive for people to do it multiple times.

Imagine doing the first 3 primals now, if there were no tomes and no roulette bonus. You would form a group in PF, and beg people to help you out, or sit for hours in DF.

If they did put an incentive into rerunning the fights, then it would just be a new trial added in that required relic to unlock.

The solo route is a rough one, you would need a fight that was challenging and at the same time possible in 3-6 month old gear. And they would have to make one for each job.

I guess another route would be an open world spawn battle like the treasure maps that allows you to take in a party like the treasure maps. That's the only real option I see for it.

[Kiara]

The problem with unique content for the relics is that it either needs to be solo, or there needs to be an incentive for people to do it multiple times.

Definitely agree.

Looking back at the Relic Quest so far in 2.0, it feels really obvious that the Dev Team recycled old content for the sake of spending their resources elsewhere. It's definitely the cheapest way to go for Development Costs (Time, Schedule, Team Members). Why have them make original content when they can "ingeniously" send players back through all the old Dungeons, FATEs, collecting Light, etc. without having to spend time creating new animations, art, designing custom battles, etc.?

I don't agree with this at all, but it's very clear they were doing that.

Perhaps Yoshi P can take inspiration from an older Final Fantasy game where they incorporated upgrading Ultimate Weapons by having it involve a brand-new Raid / Gameplay System as an OPTIONAL / Side Objective:

* In Dynamis, player could challenge multiple objectives:
* Battle through the land and face Dynamis Lord
* Challenge various NMs for Artifact Armor Drops
* Most Mobs you killed had a chance at dropping Rare Currency (that you could sell or collect to help you for Relics)
* You could challenge and try to get Fragments for other upgrades
* You could go through Side Paths, Side Objectives to challenge Rare NMs to try and get an Attestation for your Relic (Attestation of Might, of Celerity, of Force, etc.).

I always felt it was a great way to incentivize players to do an activity together and have different purposes within that mass Raid. There were multiple objectives and rewards.

I hope Yoshi P creates some unique challenges for the Relic in 3.0 Heavensward, to make it more fitting to that idea of what a Relic Weapon can be.

[Shadowkept]

I think the biggest thing for me is getting that sense of accomplishment. And right now it's lacking for me in the Relic quest chain. It's almost a foregone conclusion that given enough time you will get your next Relic stage completed, so when you complete your Animus or Nexus or w/e stage you're currently on it's anticlimactic. Sure, you're happy to be done with that stage, and have the final product for w/e reason glamour, functionality, or because you're a completionist, but there is also this pseudo buyer's remorse that wonders if it was all worth it, or will it ever be worth it in future stages.

If the content progression was engaging and fun and not recycled and repetitive the end result wouldn't be such a big question mark on the risk/reward scale. I'd more happily settle for a 2nd best or even a glamour only weapon, if the progression to achieve it was fun and challenging.

[PArcher]

I think the biggest thing for me is getting that sense of accomplishment. And right now it's lacking for me in the Relic quest chain. It's almost a foregone conclusion that given enough time you will get your next Relic stage completed, so when you complete your Animus or Nexus or w/e stage you're currently on it's anticlimactic. Sure, you're happy to be done with that stage, and have the final product for w/e reason glamour, functionality, or because you're a completionist, but there is also this pseudo buyer's remorse that wonders if it was all worth it, or will it ever be worth it in future stages.

I got my Ragnarok last night. I am also on T13 progression, and this axe is the best weapon I can get until we not only clear T13, but the Axe drops (which could take weeks or months). The Ironworks axe is not worth the 1300 Poetics and its a waste of a twine to make it 130.

Sometime in 2.5 there will be another Relic quest to make it 135...which makes it the absolute best Axe I can get. No regrets from me for doing this quest.

[Synestra]

(which could take weeks or months)

I still remember how it took 25 runs of T5 untill our BLM saw his weapon, this was after lockout removal but when lockout was in place it would have meant 25 weeks of not seeing it. For this reason keeping relic up to date is extremely useful even if you are already clearing final turn, atleast as an tank/healer as you are mostlikely last in tome weapon priority.

[Katsaria]

The entire relic chain is ridiculous and not worth the effort. That is of my opinion. A lot easier to opt for the i130 weps and Dreadwyrm.