Sword Oath in T10-13 while tanking

[Sleigh]

Sword Oath is obviously a huge DPS boost over Shield Oath, and given how this content is tuned more for i110 than i130 + i135 weapons (as groups are approaching rapidly), I think it's safe to say going Sword Oath during low damage sections is pretty viable (inb4 PLD is a tank, not DPS), especially because unlike WAR, PLD retains all forms of mitigation while in this stance. However, my group has yet to experiment much with it, both in identifying the best times to do so and in practicing it.

Given that it's easily 100-150 more DPS during the time you're in Sword Oath (not counting going in and out), I think it's logical that if your WHM can handle it, it's more damage to Sword than it is to throw in WHM DPS (especially because of WHM ACC) by utilizing the excess mitigation as healer downtime.

Likely places for Sword that I know of:

T10, after Critical Rip until the next one or adds
T11, other than when it's a burn on the final add, I'm not sure
T12, I've seen the entire P1 done in Sword Oath so it's possible almost all of it can be done
T13, final phase after Megaflare is a very low damage section, probably worthwhile to switch until Earthshakers

Thoughts? Experiences with this? I've always had an interest in this but I've never seen it discussed here.

[Donjo]

Let's see... being out of Shield Oath is in increase of 20% to incoming damage and being in Sword Oath is(from what little testing I've done on the subject) an increase of about 30% to damage dealt over Shield Oath. This is not 100-150 DPS unless you're already pulling 200 DPS while in Shield Oath. If we consider that the Warrior is probably doing more, being in that situation would mean that the Tanks are probably providing enough DPS already anyway.

Warriors have Unchained to remove their Defiance penalty for 20 seconds. Paladins have Rampart to reduce their damage taken by 20% for 20 seconds. Rampart + Sword Oath does the same thing as Defiance + Unchained, so try experimenting with that combo as you're trying to find safe places to actually let go of the mitigation.

However, another way to increase the overall DPS of tanks is to let the Paladin off-tank whenever appropriate. Sword Oath + Storms Eye ekes out slightly more damage than a Warrior out of Defiance in most situations, so that's another way to maximize damage.

But, here's the classic arguments: Even if you manage to find places to stance dance, it usually won't be for very long. Thus, the amount of DPS you gain has to be balanced against the GCDs you sacrifice to enter and exit stances. Overall, the amount of DPS you add won't be very much and you might even lose some if you screw up. It is more probably more efficient to add a bit of Strength to the Paladin and just keep tanking as usual if you're already experiencing Healer downtime you don't wish to spend DPSing. Alternately, you can definitely do the healer DPS thing by melding either Crafted i90 or Crafted i110 with Accuracy, and all the numbers I've found show that a Healer can provide a lot more DPS by abusing crafted gear than a Tank can while sacrificing less of their performance as a Healer.

Just keep in mind that the use of Crafted Accessories to make Tanks and Healers go beyond their explicitly stated roles does not indicate that the content is tuned for the lower item levels you just cleared it with. The content is tuned for 4 DPS, 2 VIT Tanks, and 2 Healers who like to heal more than DPS. Clever players just got around that and employed measured risks to make the content possible to clear with high skill and low gear ^.^

[Eye_Gore]

Am I understanding Sword Oath all wrong? Its says its an increase in auto-attack by 50. So even with a iLvl 135 Dreadwyrm which has 58, wouldn't total DPS only be 108 on an auto-attack? I do get an auto-attack off between combos but is it really even dealing enough DPS to matter?

[SpookyGhost]

Sword Oath + Rampart = Shield Oath + DPS. Just something to consider.

[SirTaint]

T10 - I only Sword oath during while burning the second set of adds and after mine are dead.
T11 - I sword oath up until adds except for when handling Head, so 4 CDs in Shield oath. I sword oath the egg and then shield oath the rest of the fight.
T12 - I sword oath whenever I'm OT which is around 90 seconds before adds phase and half the final phase.
T13 - still learning and always in shield oath atm

I run with Topaz accessories (cheap) for T10-12 30/30 str.

Sword oath is around a 110 DPS increase for me. 201 was my parse on T10 this week and I run over 310 when in sword oath. (Nexus numbers i107)

[SirTaint]

Am I understanding Sword Oath all wrong? Its says its an increase in auto-attack by 50. So even with a iLvl 135 Dreadwyrm which has 58, wouldn't total DPS only be 108 on an auto-attack? I do get an auto-attack off between combos but is it really even dealing enough DPS to matter?

You also lose the DPS penalty from Shield oath.

[Judge_Xero]

Am I understanding Sword Oath all wrong? Its says its an increase in auto-attack by 50. So even with a iLvl 135 Dreadwyrm which has 58, wouldn't total DPS only be 108 on an auto-attack? I do get an auto-attack off between combos but is it really even dealing enough DPS to matter?

That DPS Value on the weapon just give you a basis of what % of 100 Potency you will be doing given the Weapon Delay. That's no the actual DPS of the weapon AA Damage. Also, Sword Oath increases your AA damage by 50 Potency, as well as it doesn't carry the damage penalty that Shield Oath has. But to counter that, you also don't get the Enmity buff that Shield Oath gives.
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As long as you are just running OT it's fine. But doing MT in Sword Oath would be fun to hold enmity off your DPS unless you are wearing melded i90 and/or STR accessories.

T10 - Could definitely see it used for MT outside of Crit Rip, although Crackle Hiss hits pretty hard too. I could see it used on the adds that the group burns down second, as the DPS hit them pretty hard off the line to not have that Stance Enmity Buff. Just have a bard bait those tail swipes to reduce the healing, since double Prey's will be going off then too that the healers have to deal with.

T11 - Could see it working well on the first phase, since there's not a lot of huge damage going out.

The tank on the Sphere could do it if you have enough people soaking the Cannons. I don't see it working on the Cube without a mage ripping hate off it because it's already taking reduced Physical (Stance Enmity buffs helps). If not a Mage DPS, then for sure a healer would tear it off the tank.
Kind of a catch-22 since it's usually the War on the Sphere since SP helps with Cannons. So PLD on the Cube in Sword Oath....

T12 - In my group the SCH is doing over 300 DPS for the phases where that DPS push really matters (1-2). I think if the tank was trying to push damage outside of the tanking stance it would cause the SCH to actually have to heal a bit. So while it would be a DPS increase for the tank, it would be a loss for the SCH and probably equal out to the same thing.
Tank swapping when not eating damage is always welcomed though.

[Ellatrix]

Tank damage from boss is not very high in T10/12, so you can use Sword Oath for the majority of the fight pretty easily outside of adds.

T11 has higher tank damage so stance dancing is needed to still be safe.

T13 MT is shield oath.

This is not recommended for progression; this is for farm when your gear can support going Ruby and still have ~9k HP. You're still a tank first and putting the party at risk is never worth it.

[SirTaint]

I run t10-13 with 8k HP. My max HP is 9200. We have gotten 2 fending drops in the 6-7 weeks coil has been out. (Wrist x2 qq)

I'm sure once the RNGgods put out there will be many more sword oath opportunities. At least it's my turn for sand this carboncoat this week!

[Ellatrix]

That's fine but you aren't trying to tank Critical Rip etc. in Sword Oath which is why the higher HP is good. 8k to use more STR but play it safe with Shield Oath is working with what you have.