The Keeper of the Lake Elder primal

[Sapphic]

Erm, are we absolutely sure we will get an elder primal? Shiva was advertised as an elder primal and ended up being something totally different. Also, it has been confirmed that Midgarsomr is not a primal. Of course we may get Odin who really is an elder primal and raises many, many questions about who he is and why he was imprisoned

EDIT: gaaah, reading the comments makes me wish I could somehow play the complete 1.0 storyline. I missed out on a lot of good lore.

Confirmed we are getting Odin trial in 2.5: Urths Gift.

It's the thuper thecwet one I wanna know! XD But my gils on Ishgards manipulating Ascian as part of the main scenario^^

[Balipu]

It's the thuper thecwet one I wanna know! XD But my gils on Ishgards manipulating Ascian as part of the main scenario^^

Ehhh if you say so.

[Balipu]

Well we will know in a week.

[firstsin]

After reading the theories in this thread I am surprised that no one mentioned Good King Moggle Mog XII.

The Moogle King never existed but the Moogles were able to create this Primal. This make me think that sealing primals in not a possibility. The Allagans were only able to imprison the Primals. Once the Primals aether ran out they'd loose their corporeal form and return to the aether. And since everything in the World of Eorzea consists of aether the Primals can be summoned as long as sufficient amount of aether is used. This also explained in the story and details of maintaining a summoned a primal indefinitely in FCoB.

1/2

[firstsin]

2/2

The Ascians in my opinion are able to use the power of the echo to bridge the gap between the corporeal and non-corporeal world. This may have something to do with Hydelyn getting weaker or the dark crystal getting stronger (don't really know just speculating).

What I am trying to say is the Ascians are not the same as primals but understand the nature and power of primals, thus are able to use the primals ability to return to the aether to their own advantage like escaping death.

But unlike primals if their essence can be trapped in an aetherial prison (auracite) they can be destroyed, ultimately preventing them from returning.

Now here is where it gets murky. We know if there is enough prayers and sufficient aether anything can be given form in Eorzea. So there is the issue with my theory that the ascians themselves might be summoned by Zodiac or another being.

[PArcher]

Good King Moggle Mog is technically a Moogle myth, but it is still possible he did/does exist, if the myth is true

[lololink]

Good King Moggle Mog is technically a Moogle myth, but it is still possible he did/does exist, if the myth is true

He is now known as a myth but it is likely that he existed, myths usually don't come from nowhere, we don't know a lot of the first Era when gods where still in Eorzea, it is possible that moogles existed since that era, of course the myth might be very far from the real story.

[Toranja]

I would hold off delving too deep into the nature of the Primals just yet. Patch 2.5 seems like it will bring the plot back on axis with 1.0's main plot and will shed some light on this.

But if we are going that way, then I would say the best comparison lies in FFX with the fayth, the aeons, Dream Zanarkand and the pyreflies.

[RolandDebreton]

My thoughts on the matter:

I think the Moggle Mog line of thinking is spot on for explaining the Silver Tear Seal scene.

Contention 1: Myth exists among a people (Moogles) of a powerful patron. This god figure, a complete fabrication or an actual being, exists as part of their legend. His actuality, his real existence, is unimportant for this argument. What is important is the story and the belief.

Contention 2. A method exists to take the animus or soul stuff of that world (aether) and convert shape to it - create; whether it be a fireball, a wave of healing regenerative reconstruction, or virtual life. A pseudo-creation is what is had there, the power to declare intentions to existence, "Let there be, and it was."

Contention 3: With a proper formula the belief in something, like a legendary moogle sky king, or an ancient super Amal'ja fire champion/god and his mythos can be given shape.

I am of the belief that we may never know what the original storyboarding for the 1.0 intro may have been. However, if I was going to explain it, I'd say that before the breaking of the seal, Ifrit was a story, not an ancient Allagan being, not a modern being, a belief.

When the seal broke, a LOT of flashing entities burst forth. I'm guessing that at that moment, a whole lot of things went from potentiality to actuality. Angry, roused up Amal'ja shaman told tales of a fierce spirit of fire on the plains of Paglth'an, who had destroyed their foes. When that belief, and that unique set of aether met, Ifrit coalesced over Mor Dhona, and was then, by faith, made real. Like others have said, he became "available," then.

Continued Amal'ja belief, and sufficient supply of the aether that gave him actuality are all it takes, presto, homemade firegod fresh from the oven. Peoples have been able to pull this off millennia ago, and presently.

My question is, how often has this been possible between Allag and the present? We know at least once in Doma some time back. Is this kind of special godcrafting only possible when some ancient pool of Allagan summoning hoodoo is drudged up?

As an aside Erik tells us a legend of my patron Althyk and the deity of Fate crafting Midgarsormr to guard Silvertear. Others in this forum have bluntly stated Silvertear to have been an Allagan construct. What evidence do we have for the Seal's origins beyond the creation-tale?

[WyrahFhurrst]

I think the thing is that Silvertear Lake is supposed to be the font of aether for the realm of Eorzea, and the Agrius crashing into it with its ceruleum engines and the ensuing explosion, caused a massive release of aether. [spoiler]This aether would be necessary in the creation of primals, in the same way as Louisoix created the primal Phoenix in himself after the failed summoning of the Twelve. The spoiler-y bit is the Alphinaud explains this whole thing at the end of Turn 12 where he explains how a Primal is born with the line "... And 'tis throught the combined prayers of the desperate - and an abundant source of aether - that primals are born..." [/spoiler] I think that what we saw with the beam of light and all of the primals shooting out of it was their (the primals') birth from the continuous pleading of their peoples and the sudden overwhelming abundance of aether.