Problem with Savage Coil and suggestions

[Zumi]

Let's talk about Savage Coil. There are 2 big problems with it. Its too late for any changes for 2nd coil but with the Final coil coming out I hope Savage coil can have some changes this time around.

1. Incentive to run savage coil.

Our free company coil group beats the second coil of Bahamut turn 6-9 in about 1 hour each week, then we are done with end game for the week. Some people in the FC leveled alts to run coil again. Now then some people in the FC do not care about even trying savage coil because it drops the same gear as normal coil. They don't care about titles or achievements, all that really matters for the majority of the playerbase is the gear. It only takes a couple people in your FC coil group not willing to try it and makes the whole group not be able to attempt it. Ask any person who has beat T9 why they don't do savage coil its almost always because they don't want to do it because there isn't a big enough reward to do it. Personally I would do it for the titles and challenge but everyone is not like me they need that better gear motivation to do it.

Solution: I would make savage coil drop slightly higher ilvl gear, half a tier higher so 10 item levels. Also add in the bonus of having the gear look different then regular coil gear, do a recolor or make it dyeable. This would give every FC who already has normal coil on farm the motivation to step into savage coil and try it out.

2. Shared lockouts.
Having the Normal and Savage coil share lookouts doesn't work out so well. No other content in FFXIV shares lockouts for different difficulty levels. This way if some people in your FC coil group do not want to run savage coil can easily make another group with different people that are all interested. Getting locked out because you did normal mode just doesn't seem right.

Solution: Separate normal and savage coil lockouts. This will let you do both and if different groups if need be.

[Coatl]

Make savage coil drop Dyable HA pieces. There..fixed!

[Exstal]

Make savage coil drop Dyable HA pieces. There..fixed!

Except it's more work for the same gear. Celestial deities forbid, you need a specific piece and it never drops (like most of coil drops for anyone doing Turns 1-4).

[SarcasmMisser]

As someone who has worked on savage turns and has clears my thoughts:

This is not farmable without it dropping a much higher tier of gear, which makes little sense when it is relevant for only 3 months, would be rng only which puts you at the mercy of our lord and savior and in all honesty would be a tier of gear for a minority of a minority. Just straight up it is hard and very tightly tuned and when the majority of the raiding population, which is still a minority of total subs, cannot do normal without overgearing it in full i110 it doesn't make sense to have it as anything more than an extra challenge. Yoshida has said in the past that he is comfortable with the current difficulty of the raids they have released and I agree with him, you may as well make raids tiered if you are going to drop upgrades in savage except the players in this game just plain aren't skilled enough to really justify harder raids.

So even if you add incentive, it would motivate more groups who are capable of doing it to do it but it is still a raid that lives up to its name; it is really damn savage and I don't see a majority of raiders being capable of pulling it off. The execution is damn tight, the timing required on the heals often has to be flawless, the DPS needs to be top class. Everyone I know who are cleared savage turns pretty much never wants to go into that instance again on the difficulty alone, farming it for RNG would be a nightmare unless we started to break the tuning.

I'd like better rewards but you can't justify it stepping outside the realm of vanity. Maybe an item with the achievement as well that gives a mount, or a vanity item to glamor on your weapon or armor. And separating lockouts is a must, they made it like a tier of progression in itself and expected people to all agree to delay their farm because of it for the same items.

[Sapphic]

Solution: Separate normal and savage coil lockouts. This will let you do both and if different groups if need be.

Totally agree, numbers for attempts on savvage, I feel, would have been much higher if they had given them seperate lockouts. Agree with keeping requirement to clear normal mode before you can access the savage version. But pretty sure I read somewhere they where thinking of seperating the lockouts for normal and savage going forwards. We, when progressing, where running 2-3, some weeks more, times a week. Now, its an hour and done. If it had been seperate lockouts we would have spent a day or 2 attempting savage also after getting the clear on normal.

[Sove92]

Separate lockout is the only thing savage coil needs. That way people don't feel forced to do it, but also have an incentive to do it. Give a higher ilvl and people feel forced to do it, asking for even more nerfs in addition to the general crying for nerfs.

[Sapphic]

As someone who has worked on savage turns and has clears my thoughts:

Which is exactly how I see the Savage versions, some who are clearing coil have asked previously for more challenging content, something to really sink their teeth and time into. Which savage (albeit it was implemented as a test to see what numbers would attempt it, and as my previous post stated, having same lockout has made those numbers lower than the expected for obvious reasons) was implemented for.

It's for those who want harder challenges, those who set games to the highest difficulty, even tho the rewards aren't any different than easier modes (talking single player games of course as an example for comparisons). Just managing to beat it is it's own reward, never mind the shinies. They are irrelevant to those who really want a challenge.

[SarcasmMisser]

Totally agree, numbers for attempts on savvage, I feel, would have been much higher if they had given them seperate lockouts. Agree with keeping requirement to clear normal mode before you can access the savage version. But pretty sure I read somewhere they where thinking of seperating the lockouts for normal and savage going forwards. We, when progressing, where running 2-3, some weeks more, times a week. Now, its an hour and done. If it had been seperate lockouts we would have spent a day or 2 attempting savage also after getting the clear on normal.

It's going to be separated when neither have a lock out anymore as in when the next raid comes out with new gear so there would be no point, you can overgear it and it isn't the same difficulty.

[Sapphic]

It's going to be separated when neither have a lock out anymore as in when the next raid comes out with new gear so there would be no point, you can overgear it and it isn't the same difficulty.

No, I was meaning further implementations of savage versions of content. eg third coil having seperate lockouts for normal and savage (if they implement it of course). Which would be logical to try and ascertain a truer number of those willing to try it without the present restraint of the shared lockout.

[SarcasmMisser]

My personal hunch is that after this experiment there probably won't be any more savage. I won't complain if i end up being wrong.