Quote Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah View Post
I don't think it is that hard to achieve 10k per hour of SP gain even with the current systems?
It's not hard. In my previous post that I quoted, I specifically stated that you can get anywhere from 10-20k/hr in a grinding party.
Secondly, even though the fatigue system (which is not stupid) kicks in after 80k continuous SP, the reality is much different. You can pretty much gain double that much SP in a week's time even with a slight fatigue.
Yes, I know that you can power through fatigue if you choose to. You asked me what the developers' idea of "good SP" is, and I answered it. Approximately 10k/hr for 8 hours. This is what the devs consider the point at which you've gained enough SP and should probably start using a different class. It's pretty clear that this is their intention, otherwise the math would be different.

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/978...igue-Explained

You did not also answer my question. "There are not enough ways to get good SP", what does this mean? You listed leves and grouping, what am I supposed to look at? Are you simply not agreeing with the developers idea of 'good' SP?
I did answer your question. You can leve or you can grind, but there are fewer ways to do it to get at least 10k/hour, and more ways to screw it up (more so at later ranks. 1-30 is now a cakewalk after patch 1.15).

That's not the point, because you don't tell me whether you mean "maximum SP in an hours worth of exping" or "maximum SP in 5 hours of exping", for example. If you want to maximize your SP gain for 5 consecutive hours a different method is used than if you want to maximize your SP gain for just one hour.
This is why I'm framing SP gain as a derivative of time, so that how much time you spend total is irrelevant. Only the rate matters.

If you want to maximize SP gain for 5 hours, you use the exact same method for maximizing SP gain for 1 hour: get a bunch of people with leves and then link them all.

If is efficient if you want to gain more SP and do not have to care about the time spent. It is not efficient if time is a concern. There are two methods that both achieve the best results for whatever your time resources are. If you want the most SP over-all, you should leve-share. If you want the most SP in the smallest possible timeframe, you should leve-link instead. Both ways have their pros and cons, and are efficient.
Wasting time is not efficient. Time is always a concern. Whether you play for only 2 hours a day, or 20 hours a day, time is always a concern if you are serious about maximizing your SP gain.

If you want the most SP in the smallest possible timeframe, you should leve-link
Yes.

If you want the most SP over-all, you should leve-share.
No. If you want the most SP over-all, you leve-link. Then when you run out of leves, you find more people who do have leves they are willing to link with you. If you can't find more people with links, then you go grind some normal mobs. This strategy will gain more total SP than a party that just shares each link individually and wastes all of their guardians favor.

Yes- but the point here is, is it good enough?
In the games current state, yes, it's good enough. There is much more incentive to party than there is to solo. If there wasn't, you wouldn't see so many shouts for leve parties in Uldah.

Up to rank 40 you can simply change to a higher rank camp?
You misunderstand. I'm talking about the uselessness of increasing stars if it takes the mob's level over the dlvl 10 cap. Read my blog post that I linked earlier. It shows you how SP is calculated in this game.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...cicuid=1555795

Then why is the 30mins required to build a party a big waste of time, if you can get 5k/hr SP during it?
The 30 minutes is a waste of time, but once you get a decent party started, it is not a waste of time.

That's what control is all about. The developers dictate what we should be doing, and we'll end up doing it. Either directly or indirectly. In the end it's just a different approach to achieve the same end result.
I think we're arguing for more or less similar means, it's just that you're calling it "control", and I'm calling it "freedom"


I think we may have a few misunderstandings here so I'm just going to repeat my main points about what I want from this game:

I want a variety of fun activities to do that will at least get me 10k/hour

I want those activities to involve other people and encourage player interaction, cooperation, camaraderie, and strategy

I want these activities to be explained adequately, or at least, be able to be understood in a straightforward manner.


But anyway, we're straying from what the OP is talking about:

Quote Originally Posted by Iron View Post
Can you please find a way to encourage traditional partying more?

At the start of the game, we had relatively more "normal" parties for SPing, on efts, raptors ,etc. Not saying that there are none now, but with Battle Guildleves providing more SP, as well as behests being somewhat more appealing than before, there has been a lack of SP groups..

Please find the right balance between the 2 (Now I'm not saying to nerf SP from leves, just improve SP in regular groups) so that regular parties are encouraged more..
I agree with everything Iron said.