[dev1021]SP in non-leve parties

[Dreamer]

SE has a few choices though to change this issue...

1. Reduce leve link SP (will really make people angry currently playing)
2. Boost SP from normal mobs (makes everyone happy), probably not as happy as 1000 SP per kill with GA Dunes folk for dinner leve
3. Change GA to where, instead of a temp buff for a leve boosting SP, its changed to an 2 hour? Exp buff for normal monsters. (goes away if you start a leve/behest)
Or maybe like every 10 GA points = 1 hour, max of 4 hours.

Or

4. Increase the mob count and timer for three-star and greater leves (double the timer to one hour, triple the number of mobs spawned), and give us the option to auto-repeat a leve from the spawned aetherial node on quest completion. It would still be limited to your normal allotment of leves per day, but you could do the same one eight times if you wished.

[Rentahamster]

Short version of all that:

You can party....or Solo....both have their pros and cons. At least you have the choice. Be happy. If you have a hard time getting a decent grinding party together...you are doing it wrong. If you have a problem getting ridiculous amounts of Sp from party leve linking...you are doing it wrong.

Indeed. Thanks for the summary

[Betelgeuzah]

I don't agree that 10k-20k SP per hour is good?

You keep saying that it is too hard to gain good SP. Then you say that getting 10k SP per hour is not hard. Either you don't think that 10k SP per hour is not good, or you keep contradicting yourself.

If you know how to grind, you can get 10-20k/hour (easy part). But it requires a lot of knowledge about the game, which not a lot of people have (hard part).

Finally we're getting somewhere. You want S-E to teach people how to progress, I see. You hadn't even mentioned "knowledge" before (only something about "not having enough options") so how do you think I can predict what you're trying to say? Don't talk in riddles.

If you leve link for 5 hours, you get 250-375k SP.
If you leve share for 5 hours, you get 100-150k SP.

And I just explained how that is not practical. Did you read that, or did you assume you are right like always?

If you leve-link for 5 hours, you run out of leves after the first hour.
If you leve-share for 5 hours, your leves last for all 5 hours.

Then you listed how you just "need to find more people to leve-link with" even if you have no leves to offer yourself (which is not feasible and should not be) or go to grind monsters instead.

So to summarize:
If you leve link for 5 hours, you get 25-30k/hr (on average) for the first hour and 10k/hr for the next 4 hours, or find people to leve link with (not practical).
If you leve share for 5 hours, you get 15-20k/hr for all 5 hours.

Guess which one is better? Yeah. Only with your theoretical assumption that does not work in practice (you even said this yourself, goddamn) is it possible to get more SP by leve linking in a long period of time. If this is what you mean by "leechers" (people who only want to leve link and become drama queens and pissed off when they can't leech players that link their leves) then the system is already perfect on that front. Share your leves or deal with the fact that it's not going to be as effective as sharing them.

I'm operating under the assumption that you always have leve links for the whole 5 hours. When you compare two different things, you have to keep external variables as constant as possible.

Or we could operate under the assumption that the things we compare are plausible in reality. Your assumption is as good as nothing, because in reality that kind of situation will not happen and should not happen, because that makes leve-sharing completely useless.

Your math does not work because this scenario is not realistic. In reality, you can do a lot more than 2 vs 8 leves when you share as opposed to linking. You are far more likely to get new people to join with their new leves to share if they will get something out of it as well, instead of everyone leeching off the only guy with the leves. In reality not everyone is going to hit dlvl=10, nor is the base SP going to be 125 or 100 which hurts linking more than sharing. In reality having 3 links for every leve is not realistic, which hurts linking strategy a lot. Maybe not with just 2 leves to do, but that was just an example of yours and in reality the numbers fluctuate a lot more than that.

I said it was "difficult" (especially for newbies). I didn't say it was "impossible". It was difficult to build a party in FF11 too, yet that was good enough for most people.

Good enough for 500k players that is. Who knows for how many it wasn't? For those who saw it as a problem, they were more likely to not play the game at all. That's what SE should care about here, because unlike in XI where to them 500k players was "good enough" the 30k here hardly is.

If you solo for 2,500 SP, you're wasting time that you could have used making a party so that you can solo for much better SP gains as a party.

"Because multitasking is such a hard concept." Build a party while soloing?

Woah. -Neo

In the end I wanted you to explain to me what the problem is. You took a damn long time to do that. Without knowing what the disease is, we can't solve it. It's not about me or you, we are trying to tell the representatives to tell the developers what the problem is. The more precise we do that, the better. More than anything I wanted you to explain the problem better than "hay this sux FIX IT PLZ" and now you have done that, although the details are still open.

From this clear and concrete evidence you provided (finally, geez) we can finally come into the assumption that leve-linking may be too good as opposed to sharing right now, and that leads us to the symptoms the partying system has currently.

[Rentahamster]

You keep saying that it is too hard to gain good SP. Then you say that getting 10k SP per hour is not hard. Either you don't think that 10k SP per hour is not good, or you keep contradicting yourself.

Again, you're responding to what you THINK I said, rather than what I actually said. Do you want me to quote myself again? From the very start, I said that there are not enough options available to the player. Grinding for 10k/hr minimum is easy if you know where to go, but there are not a lot of places to go, and not many people know where they are. Read the thread over again and stop putting words in my mouth.

Only with your theoretical assumption that does not work in practice (you even said this yourself, goddamn) is it possible to get more SP by leve linking in a long period of time.

"Theoretical assumption"? Good linkshells do this all the time. This is the reason why I used the most plausible scenario for the calculations. This is why I specifically limited the leve-link party to only 8 leves, so that they had to spend the rest of their time grinding. If I had used an implausible scenario, the numbers would be skewed even more in favor of leve-linking.

"Because multitasking is such a hard concept." Build a party while soloing?

Woah. -Neo

Please, enlighten me as to how you shout for a pick up party in Uldah while grinding mobs solo. Whoa. Besides, my original point was that taking 30 minutes to make a party is a waste of time. It should only take 5 minutes.

In the end I wanted you to explain to me what the problem is. You took a damn long time to do that.

I didn't take a long time to do that. You could have figured out my general point from reading my first 3 posts in this thread. It's not my fault that everyone else understands what I'm saying while I have to explain it to you 5 times over.

[Evangela]

it's a serious issue and a lot of people left the game because of this

I once left the game too when the November patch came out, destroyed the party grinding tradition

and today I saw someone keep shouting in the city, finding party member for raptors grinding and he shout there all evening, no one want to join

[Molly_Millions]

it's a serious issue and a lot of people left the game because of this

I once left the game too when the November patch came out, destroyed the party grinding tradition

and today I saw someone keep shouting in the city, finding party member for raptors grinding and he shout there all evening, no one want to join

I never have much of an issue finding grinding parties, maybe that guy is just a douche so nobody wants to party with them?

[Betelgeuzah]

rather than what I actually said.

"It's not hard to get 10k/hr." (Specifying what you mean? What's that? Obviously I need to just understand that you are talking about two separate things and using one, insufficient term to describe them both).

And then:

Grinding for 10k/hr minimum is easy if you know where to go, but there are not a lot of places to go, and not many people know where they are.

You finally got to the damn point and started using your vocabulary (words such as knowledge) as well as explaining yourself properly. Thank You.

"Theoretical assumption"? Good linkshells do this all the time.

So when it is practical for only a select few, the rest of the people don't matter? The average is more important than the high-end or the low-end.

Please, enlighten me as to how you shout for a pick up party in Uldah while grinding mobs solo.

When on a Japanese server, do what the Japanese do. And didn't everyone have a Linkshell in this game according to you?

I didn't take a long time to do that. You could have figured out my general point from reading my first 3 posts in this thread.

And you could have figured from these simple words

It's not about me or you, we are trying to tell the representatives to tell the developers what the problem is.

that (I'm about to explain this sentence to you now, listen carefully) it's not about me or anyone else. This thread exists for the sake of talking to the developers, and all I did was help you out in figuring out how to give proper feedback. From the very first reply to you, all I wanted for you is to make sense so that everyone understands, not just you and the magical "everyone else"- because while it may be oh so clear to you and "everyone else" (lol), we can't look inside your head. I'm sorry about that.

[Rentahamster]

"It's not hard to get 10k/hr." (Specifying what you mean? What's that? Obviously I need to just understand that you are talking about two separate things and using one, insufficient term to describe them both).

So, I guess you are making me quote myself.

First post (how to grind 10k/hr, what mobs to fight, what the problem is (implied), and how to fix it easily):

Well, you can get anywhere from 10k to almost 20k per hour grinding raptors. We just need to make a larger variety of mobs more grindable, primarily by increasing respawn rates, mob populations, and increasing base SP to 150 for more mobs.

Second Post (reiteration of the problems):

There's also a limited number of good SP grind spots, as I noted in a previous post. It mainly comes down to a disturbing lack of viable choices available to a player in order to adequately gain SP via leves or regular mob grinding.

News flash - This quote: "Grinding for 10k/hr minimum is easy if you know where to go, but there are not a lot of places to go, and not many people know where they are." Where you thanked me for "getting to the damn point", is the same point I made in the first 3 posts of this thread.

So when it is practical for only a select few, the rest of the peolpe don't matter? The average is more important than the high-end or the low-end.

Good players are always going to be able to advance faster than mediocre players. That's how life works.

When on a Japanese server, do what the Japanese do. And didn't everyone have a Linkshell in this game according to you?

The Japanese shout for parties in Uldah too. And you still haven't explained how you can magically form a pick up party while soloing since there's no one around to hear you.

[Betelgeuzah]

So, I guess you are making me quote myself.

And nowhere in there do you even mention what's wrong with guildleves (yet you say that is a part of the problem). This is just one of the many times you are not explaining yourself properly.

You also do not specify what you mean by "adequately" (lump this into same category with "good" and "hard"- subjective terms that we need to dig up half of your posts to even try to decipher what you may have meant by those words at any given time) nor why it is that getting to 10k sp/hr on more monsters than raptors is not possible. You still haven't.

Good players are always going to be able to advance faster than mediocre players. That's how life works.

And are the Good players (those with a linkshell) the ones with the problem? No? Then why bring them up?

The Japanese shout for parties in Uldah too. And you still haven't explained how you can magically form a pick up party while soloing since there's no one around to hear you.

Your problem is that you don't care to specify whatever you mean at the time. "It takes 30 minutes to build a pick-up party. This is a problem." Why is it a problem? Because you can't supposedly leave Ul'dah while doing it? Isn't this a problem with the search system? Why did you even bring it up when you could have simply continued with the search system feedback? Or at least explain how the two are connected. I don't really give a damn, but hey, this thread is not for you nor me.

Now the representative would have written down "it takes 30 minutes to build a party which is a waste of time." Then he will take it to the developers, who figure out "well that's too bad, but at least he can solo during the process!". You can't simply assume that the people who work on the game are experts on knowing how people play it. Our "job" is to tell them exactly that, in a way that they understand.

[Rentahamster]

Dude, this argument is getting tiresome. You don't think I've explained myself adequately, fine, whatever. I believe I have explained my position very thoroughly, in a manner that most people can grasp. Nitpicking about the interpretation of my words is irrelevant to the subject matter and this is going way too off-topic.

The OP asked about SP in non-leve parties and I gave my take on it.