WAR viability in T12 and T13?

[ThanatosPrimordialis]

Okay, so... my group is currently in T11, and one of our tanks had been going WAR for T10 and T11 for weeks, while the other has been going PLD. Last raid night, he decided to go PLD instead. His reasoning is that WAR have horrible survivability later on in turns 12 and 13. He also commented that he just wants the easy/lazy job, which to me sounds like the only real reason.

Now, when the group formed, he joined as PLD, so I don't feel right trying to make him go WAR. However, I'm kind of annoyed about three things:

1. The loss of Storm's Path. I realize there are a lot of mixed thoughts on this ability, but the way I see it, it's essentially a free Sacred Soil that can add up with other mitigation abilities for big hits. In one of our last runs, Nerve Cloud somehow killed two people, and I assume an extra 10% protection would've most likely prevented that.

2. Storm's Eye. We have a NIN in the party. Keeping Eye up for NIN is actually a substantial dps increase that not only helps the relatively tight dps checks for FCoB, but just simply makes runs faster with fewer chances of things going wrong.

3. His WAR dps can be up to the low 200s... his PLD dps averaged 130 in our last T11 raid night. Dps is not his job, and I understand that, but it's just another noticeable loss, and what looks to me like no benefit.

So... opinions? It looks to me like there's too much utility going out the window for what to me looks like zero benefit. But that's why I'm here, to see if WAR really are terrible in the last two turns and aren't all that reliable.

Thanks in advance for any replies

[melflomil]

tell him to go back to WAR or replace, simple. lol you basically nailed it with all your points

[TrivariumOri]

Personally I feel like all the content can be completed with most compositions but to answer the 3 statements.

1. Having Storm's Path is better than not having it.
2. Storm's Eye is indeed a big increase to not only ninja dps but the paladin too.
3. Both of those parses are unacceptable at that level and with no doubt the HA wep?

Though I am only on 10-12 and can't speak for 13, warrior survivability doesn't seem to be an issue if the warrior playing knows they're class. My only concern is that they want to run paladin because its the lazy option, I wouldn't want that kind of person in my group.

[Brannigan]

The last two turns are built for warrior tanks. The tank killer moves all come out in 50s~1 minute intervals, meaning a warrior can blow something nice pretty much every time he has to tank them. However, warrior performance on turn 3 and 4 shouldn't matter to this guy or your group, because you need to get past turn 2. Even if the fight is doable for your party without Storm's Path, the cushion it provides is enough to justify taking a warrior. Storm's Eye for the ninja is just icing on the cake.

TrivariumOri basically summed up my thoughts: it's concerning that you said he wants to play paladin because it's lazier/easier and then he only pulls 130 dps. Even for full time Shield Oath that seems very low, especially if the ninja was keeping up the slashing debuff.

[SirTaint]

130 in T11 is just terrible. I do 175 but I don't even spam my GCDs in the last phase.
(I call out all the moves and let our WAR maintain hate which makes Heads way easier to deal with since I'm always the one that provoke and then he takes it right back)


WAR is extremely good in T12, unchained while MTing, IB+another CD for revelation and great snap agro for the bennu.


You need a new tank unfortunately, he obviously isn't dedicated or knowledgeable.

[Sleigh]

Your WAR wants to go from WAR + PLD to PLD + PLD? That's such a terrible idea, even with a potential NIN putting up SE. WAR has a lot of benefits over PLD overall; more TP efficient, more damaging ST and AoE, more aggro, and constant 20% mitigation available roughly every 15s. PLD's main reasons for existing are the RoH STR debuff, which with my testing is just about 10% actual mitigation from AAs/cleaves/most mega-attacks, and a lengthy set of strong CDs which work in tandem with another tank's in FCoB.

The last two turns are built for warrior tanks. The tank killer moves all come out in 50s~1 minute intervals, meaning a warrior can blow something nice pretty much every time he has to tank them. However, warrior performance on turn 3 and 4 shouldn't matter to this guy or your group, because you need to get past turn 2. Even if the fight is doable for your party without Storm's Path, the cushion it provides is enough to justify taking a warrior. Storm's Eye for the ninja is just icing on the cake.

TrivariumOri basically summed up my thoughts: it's concerning that you said he wants to play paladin because it's lazier/easier and then he only pulls 130 dps. Even for full time Shield Oath that seems very low, especially if the ninja was keeping up the slashing debuff.

As much as I agree with you in theory, no group I've seen, including my own, uses WAR MT in T13. Probably because you really want SP + SE uptime maxed out, which is much harder as MT with a Sword Oath PLD on your ass, and also because shield blocking is really strong P1/P2. I'd very much like to see WAR do particularly well and PLD go Sword Oath but as of now no one does it.

Maybe WAR should hold the boss in final phase since outgoing damage tones down. I'd like to try it but it'd be harder to gear for, since most people use an i90 + STR accessory right-side for WAR in the OT role, which is risky to throw in the MT role in T13 even in a phase where it's just mostly AAs combined with mechanics and one breath cleave a minute.

[Gildarts]

As much as I agree with you in theory, no group I've seen, including my own, uses WAR MT in T13. Probably because you really want SP + SE uptime maxed out, which is much harder as MT with a Sword Oath PLD on your ass, and also because shield blocking is really strong P1/P2. I'd very much like to see WAR do particularly well and PLD go Sword Oath but as of now no one does it.

Encore did the fight with WAR MT, 115 weapons and killed before enrage

[ThanatosPrimordialis]

Thanks for the responses everyone. Yeah, I kinda figured I was right about a WAR being better for the group. Again, my only concern is that he DID join the group as PLD, and I don't feel very good about essentially demanding someone to switch to a job that they didn't originally intend to play. But again, it IS better for the group as a whole, and the biggest thing for me at the moment is having such an uncooperative person in the group.

[CGMidlander]

Thanks for the responses everyone. Yeah, I kinda figured I was right about a WAR being better for the group. Again, my only concern is that he DID join the group as PLD, and I don't feel very good about essentially demanding someone to switch to a job that they didn't originally intend to play. But again, it IS better for the group as a whole, and the biggest thing for me at the moment is having such an uncooperative person in the group.

It's not about him. It's about the group.
If he just wants to be lazy, then his attitude is not beneficial for the group and his spot in the group should probably be questioned.

[Dhex]

130 in T11 is just terrible. I do 175 but I don't even spam my GCDs in the last phase.

Just going to echo this. I run on PLD and I push 175-180 with a full VIT build in Tank stance the entire fight and I have to clip my combos to prevent running out of TP. Maybe he's missing? Accuracy problems?