Discuss: Are DPS meters bad for MMOs?

[Radacci]

It's usually obvious if someone is doing bad DPS, so even without parsers, the same ppl would still complain.
Even without DPS meters, toxic players are still going to be toxic, in one way or another.
DPS meters are just tools, tools aren't bad, it's the ppl using the tools, that decide what to do with it.

[Zanmato]

It is a double-edged sword.

On the one side we have those who use parsers, be it against the ToS or not (It is, for now.). When they do, they point it out to the player with the low dps which leads to rejection of the player with the lower dps.

The REAL problem is that the developer, in this case being Square Enix, do not allow parsers so that players can improve and figure out why their damage was low. - To practice, in other words.
Now, because using a parser IS against the terms of service, I take it most players follow the terms of service, like myself. However, the developer must realize that what they are doing is to create a wall of rejection, separating people with lower dps, and hinder them from doing content that requires higher numbered dps. - Sure, the Echo is a thing, but should we really be needing that? No.

They should release an official parser so that players do not have to worry about 3:rd party malware and other malicious stuff. It would let us learn from our mistakes, and it would create cracks in the wall of rejection, eventually, in best case, break a lot of it down.

[Gilraen]

It is a double-edged sword.

On the one side we have those who use parsers, be it against the ToS or not (It is, for now.). When they do, they point it out to the player with the low dps which leads to rejection of the player with the lower dps.

You started good... then you said this.

The REAL problem is that the developer, in this case being Square Enix, do not allow parsers so that players can improve and figure out why their damage was low.

Making an official parser isn't going to stop the prior from happening. In fact, it will become more rampant as it'd be a part of the game and it will be expected that people use it to the exclusivity of most other means of learning, like actually running the dungeons. Alot of the dungeons have mechanics that actually punish damage races, that actually require you to spread the damage out and, heaven forbid, STOP attacking! This reliance and abuse of parsers is what Square is trying to avoid and I'm glad for it.

[Dervy]

Alot of the dungeons have mechanics that actually punish damage races, that actually require you to spread the damage out and, heaven forbid, STOP attacking!

I don't get how you've came to the conclusion that an in game parser will punish players for fights that involve slowing down/pacing your DPS. In fact, it becomes much easier to handle these types of mechanics as you can visually see your DPS output through a UI and neat little numbers. You can aim for a safety DPS target that you should not exceed and keep that steady DPS, rather than having to base everything off assumptions.

[MirielleLavandre]

I think people need to look at the big picture -- the amount of players who actually raid is probably 15% (at most) of the FF14 population. If you don't raid, you don't need parsers and even then, like many have said, you don't REALLY need them and some may see the VoIP call outs as 'cheating'. Regardless, I don't do coil due to time constraints, and if I ever did it would be with my FC static, but for those that PUG it if some elitist came at you saying your DPS is low in an abusive way (helpful discussion without mentioning parser use is okay, I guess...) , I'd direct them to this lovely GM response... from http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen..._for_ffxivapp/

Note that the conversation took place from something the person said in FC chat -- so either the monk reported the user or SE just runs scans of FC logs for words to indicate parser use.

Use parsers all you like, don't play with the 'scrub dps' who are below your skill level (saying this is just silly -- the only thing in any MMO without dynamic mobs/bosses that requires real skill and not mere memorization of scripted fights is PvP // PvP is the ONLY dynamic fighting you'll find in FF14 -- everything else is scripted as far as main mechanics). But the first time anyone mentions someone's 'sub-par dps' using actual numbers like "you suck, you're dps is 430 and mine is 500...hahahah", well - get ready for a lovely meeting like the one above.

[Zanmato]

I don't get how you've came to the conclusion that an in game parser will punish players for fights that involve slowing down/pacing your DPS. In fact, it becomes much easier to handle these types of mechanics as you can visually see your DPS output through a UI and neat little numbers. You can aim for a safety DPS target that you should not exceed and keep that steady DPS, rather than having to base everything off assumptions.

Yup, this.

[Krr]

Alot of the dungeons have mechanics that actually punish damage races, that actually require you to spread the damage out and, heaven forbid, STOP attacking!.

By 'alot' do we mean a grand total of Good King Moggle Mog Extreme and maybe 2 or 3 Coil bosses who you very rarely have to stop DPS on because of their shoddy scripting (paired with overgeared players) leading to unwinnable phase changes?

I mean, if we mean actual dungeons, the only mechanic that forces you to stop your DPS are ones where the boss becomes invincible or you have to move to avoid an attack. They still encourage doing the most DPS possible as much as you can.

[Keisatsu]

Ehh, I view it as an okay thing to have until it's used as a tool for screening people.

Someone could be just having a bad day or in legitimate need of improvement but no one will be willing to be lenient and / or help the newbie out, thus leading to his exclusion from the group.

[Elusana_Celah]

I had to Photoshop this after following this thread for awhile. I suck at magazine designs but it gets my point across.

[Saseal]

didn't read through ALL the pages, but my stance is what I believe some other have already said - good for personal checks and to use as a tool for self improvement.....

....but can also be misused to judge others badly/unfairly.


Some people just want to play to have fun - the *booming voice* SUPER MAXIMUM GODLY OUTPUT OF AGES just isn't something everyone is aiming for.

I'd use it for self ed on what I'm currently doing and try to maximize myself on that, on a dummy - but I'd never sit there, let it run while in a dungeon/raid and criticize someone if they're not up to the same standard/dmg. At most, I'd offer advice if I have knowledge on it, it's pretty important (like stunning something dangerous, important DPS check, etc) and if I don't think the person will rip my face off in misinterpretation of said advice, but I'd rather let them play how they feel is fun.

Being the best in something isn't everything.