Optimal BRD rotation?

[Ooshima]

Okay, I had a friend parse both rotations and this is what came out of it.

DoT opener: http://puu.sh/dvtcK.JPG
Krietor's opener: http://puu.sh/dvtHk.JPG

From what can be shown here, the DoT opener is 10DPS stronger while Krietor's opener is spikier. The former would be better in longer fights, while the latter may be better for SCoB-style fights.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, this is with my raid setup I've posted earlier.

As people have already pointed out:

1 parse each doesn't show anything at all. You need a large number of parse, averaged, and compared

Even with this single parse I can safely conclude that your DoT opening have lost. The DoT opening have a 42% crit vs 36% crit on the other, which is a 6% advantage, and you have 11 more swings in 13s. Assuming you have some 2.40ish GCD that means in this 13s you could probably fired 5 more GCD skills, which leads to an estimate that you have about 8 more BL proc than the other opener. The DPS-over-time graph shows that you kind of "cheated" with your DoT opener because you have used Hawk's Eye towards the end of the parse. I have done enough parse to know that around 3:10 ish mark, plus minus a bit depending on how you open, you should have Hawk's Eye back up. Your DoT opener parse is 3:29s and the spike at the end proves that you have used Hawk's Eye. The other parse does not show this spike.

FYI, Hawk Eye's when timed properly to refresh DoT buffs could very well jack up your DPS by 20ish mark at current gear level temporary. Again, this is quite clear in your graph. The other opener dies at 190s ish mark. Your DoT opener also shows a decline in 190s ish mark, but due to your use of Hawk's Eye and extended parse, DPS at that point in time spiked from slightly under 400 to a peak of just under 750 over 20s.

A rough estimate, assuming the peak was at 740, and at the 190s mark it is approximately 380, the difference is 360. To simplify it, I will take that area as a triangle (it is actually more of a bell shape). 1/2 x 20 x 360 = 3,600 => You have approximately dealt about 3,600 more damage to the dummy over that 20s. Your total pull time is 210s, so 3,600/210 = 17.14 DPS. Do note that this is an underestimated value because I simply took that area as a triangle instead of a bell, which actually have a larger area. Which means the total DPS gain over that 20s could very well be at 20ish mark. This tallies with my experience as mentioned above.

Given that you had more BL proc swings, 6% higher crit rate advantage and the fact that you used Hawk's Eye at the end of the parse, your DPS should be much more higher. I would give an estimate that you should be at least 25DPS points higher. However, your parse shows you only had 10 points advantage.

10 - 25 = -15 => The actual fact is that your DoT opener based on this case is actually 15 points weaker, not 10 points stronger.

[SlyRoyale]

You missed another point of the opener. Krietor's opener is based on spike damage, whereas the DoT opener guarantees full strength of the second set of DoTs. This means the DoT opener is better for sustaining high damage over longer periods of time, whereas Krietor's spikes and drops off. In the long run, that would result in lower DPS. Also, your estimate still misses a vital point: while it may be -15DPS weaker than it should be as you claim, it is still stronger than Krietor's in the long run.

[Ooshima]

You missed another point of the opener. Krietor's opener is based on spike damage, whereas the DoT opener guarantees full strength of the second set of DoTs. This means the DoT opener is better for sustaining high damage over longer periods of time, whereas Krietor's spikes and drops off. In the long run, that would result in lower DPS. Also, your estimate still misses a vital point: while it may be -15DPS weaker than it should be as you claim, it is still stronger than Krietor's in the long run.

I'm not using Krietor's opener BTW, I have my own set of opener after my own series of tests and speaking/exploring with some of my FC BRDs who really excels in the job (they achieved server firsts). I briefly read Krietor's guide but I don't really agree with it. My opener ensure full strength of my DoTs with X-pot right from the start, without any clipping. Krietor's guide deploys the same concept of opening with buffed DoTs but he suggests to clip at around 6s which is a waste of DPS.

With regards to your statement, it's not correct because BRD's long term DPS stabilizes after 1 min in general, after the first cycle of your CDs, unless you are lucky with crit hits and BL procs you might sustain 500 plus minus DPS for 2 mins max. Refer to the DPS-over-time graph and you can see that after the 30th sec mark the graph area and pattern are pretty much the same. There's isn't any variation after that, because BRDs doesn't have combos.

As a comparison, when patch 2.4 just came out not long ago, I did a series of test with my crafted gear and Nexus. IL was 106, with 40+% crit rate, 3mins parse without using the refreshed Hawk's Eye at the end, I was able to get 44X on dummy reliably (half of the time). Lower end parse was about 435 ish if BL proc sucks.

[SlyRoyale]

I briefly read Krietor's guide but I don't really agree with it. My opener ensure full strength of my DoTs with X-pot right from the start, without any clipping. Krietor's guide deploys the same concept of opening with buffed DoTs but he suggests to clip at around 6s which is a waste of DPS.

Well, at least we can agree that the clipping is a DPS loss. However, something about all of this is seriously nagging at me. It doesn't add up. It appears that while I'm focusing on sustained damage, the rest of you are more focused on spike damage. If you ask me, I don't believe that's a good basis to go by.

Would it be alright if you post your opener? If not here, I'm available on Steam throughout most of the day. My Steam ID is the same as my SE ID here.

[Ooshima]

Well, at least we can agree that the clipping is a DPS loss. However, something about all of this is seriously nagging at me. It doesn't add up. It appears that while I'm focusing on sustained damage, the rest of you are more focused on spike damage. If you ask me, I don't believe that's a good basis to go by.

Would it be alright if you post your opener? If not here, I'm available on Steam throughout most of the day. My Steam ID is the same as my SE ID here.

Unfortunately I'm not on Steam (nor use it) so I can't be there.

Anyways I don't think there's really a thing called spike/sustained for BRD. Eventually it comes down to the application of buffs and ensuring that your DoTs are always buffed when possible, and a priority system. We don't have a large standard deviation in our damage range and what causes the most deviation is BL procs.

However, what makes a significant difference here is that in an actual battle, like coil, you have to incorporate X-Pot usage into your buff rotation and opener. In your DoT opener, it is a waste of X-Pot time because aren't fully abusing it. If you are trying to do those things and "spreading things out" for so called "sustained damage" then you aren't maximizing your pot. That is why you will see top end game bards deploy an opener that allows them to dump the most amount of damage possible from the start, fully utilizing the X-Pot buff. The most ideal situation is having Raging Strikes, IR , Hawk's Eye and BfB up for the entire duration of the X-Pot, fully abusing it and hoping that you get BL procs and Straighter Shot procs. For me, if I get lucky with procs during openers, I may very well be floating around 480-510 ish range with the crappy IL120 bow and around IL113ish gears for 1.5 mins to 2 mins into the fight before normalizing.

As a side talk, can't wait to get the Yoichi Bow and see more pewpewpew. No intention to upgrade the Magitek Bow, just going to use twine for armor.

[rappa]

Monday i saw my first 4 numbers damage



Poor Bennu, he suffered all my bufs up ;...;

]----[

About upgrade the ironwork bow i think the same.

Priority is other dps than me and i prefer upgrade boots or helm

[Ooshima]

Monday i saw my first 4 numbers damage



Poor Bennu, he suffered all my bufs up ;...;

]----[

About upgrade the ironwork bow i think the same.

Priority is other dps than me and i prefer upgrade boots or helm

I think I met you before in one of the Snowcloak/EXDR runs (I was farming for relic drops lol)

And yeap I took my twine to upgrade my boots, screw the weapon.

[SlyRoyale]

Unfortunately I'm not on Steam (nor use it) so I can't be there.

Damn. Would it be possible to make an alt on Tonberry and ask you there, or would that be too much of a hassle? I'd like to get to the bottom of this and see every single piece of evidence I can gather on which opener is stronger (yours or the DoT, since Krietor's isn't that good). A parse or two from your end is welcome, but I'm the kind of person who wants to experience things for their own.

The most ideal situation is having Raging Strikes, IR , Hawk's Eye and BfB up for the entire duration of the X-Pot, fully abusing it and hoping that you get BL procs and Straighter Shot procs. For me, if I get lucky with procs during openers, I may very well be floating around 480-510 ish range with the crappy IL120 bow and around IL113ish gears for 1.5 mins to 2 mins into the fight before normalizing.

Hrm, it is my understanding that BRDs can squeeze in two buffs between GCDs pending on their skill speed. If I wanted to make full use of it in my DoT opener, I would have to use Raging Strikes where Blunt Arrow would be used, then pop Blood for Blood and a potion after the next GCD (WB + BL > VB + HE + RS > SS + BfB + pot...). That might result in not using a GCD when you're supposed to due to animation locking from the potion. They're usually hard to weave in, but I imagine that's just a timing issue.

Either way, the sooner I can put this behind me the better. If there's ways to improve my numbers and performance, I will not hesitate to seek them out and challenge them to see where they stand.

[Viridiana]

Okay, I had a friend parse both rotations and this is what came out of it.

DoT opener: http://puu.sh/dvtcK.JPG
Krietor's opener: http://puu.sh/dvtHk.JPG

From what can be shown here, the DoT opener is 10DPS stronger while Krietor's opener is spikier. The former would be better in longer fights, while the latter may be better for SCoB-style fights.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, this is with my raid setup I've posted earlier.

In 13 seconds, you did an extra 11 auto attacks. Since BRD doesn't have a weapon with a 1.18 delay (which would be required to hit 11 extra times in 13 seconds), you must have used Barrage. Your current Lodestone profile shows an Artemis Bow Nexus with 3.28 delay. The math says that in those 13 seconds, you got 3 shots boosted by Barrage (9 attacks) and 2 shots not boosted (2 attacks), totaling 11 extra auto-attacks. And since Hawk's Eye and Barrage are usually used in conjunction, it would surprise me not at all to find out that you also used that right at the end.

So, no, your opening most likely doesn't do better DPS. Sorry.

[SlyRoyale]

Yes, I used Barrage at the end. It should've shown up in the Straight Shot opener, but it was either cut off too early or the DoT parse should've been cut at the same point. *sigh* This is why SE should have a built-in parser. That way, console players can measure their DPS themselves. As much as I want to present many parses, I would have to ask a PC friend to humour me for a good length of time and I don't like to impose.

Still, Krietor's opener encourages clipping, which is a waste of TP and potency. It would still be a weaker opening, and that is the matter at hand.

EDIT: You also didn't read through the thread. In the very post you quoted, I used my raid setup, which I posted in the first page with an Ariyala link. Here is the link again.