RNG is Back with ZODIAC Relic

[Keisatsu]

I'd call something "casual" that can be completed relatively quick in a week or two. The relic quest line, however, is anything but casual. It's casual in the sense that, you can still achieve your desired relic, but the amount it takes depends entirely on how much free time this casual has, or how lucky they are with RNG, as to how quick they could finish.

That's fair enough, my definition of Casual is something you can gradually do till it's complete without a need to rush into it and still have it done given time and patience.

[Edeline]

The biggest lie was actually saying that the relic questline and the zodiac braves saga is for casuals. It's not. Really.

In terms of difficulty, it is. It's a long grind, but having to play a lot doesn't mean it's not casual. Casuals can play a lot but only for casual content. I know people who play a lot yet are casuals, and I know people who barely play a couple of hours who are more into hardcore content. The definition of casual doesn't come from the time they have to play, but how they play them.

[Yukiko]

Just going back in history when we had LAN games.
Remember Diablo2? There we had a HARDCORE mode, where you lose your character when you die ingame...
I do not say its the earliest who used "hardcore gamer" but it helped to form the definition back then!

The "need time to play" in the definition of "hardcore gamer" is based on that fact of losing all when dieing ingame. You had to start anew and all time spend with previously character is lost...
To argue with "hardcore = time you spend ingame" is prove of not knowing history, same as when saying "hardcore = difficult"

[Metatronn]

I want to shoot the person who think of this stupid idea.

[Lemuria]

In terms of difficulty, it is. It's a long grind, but having to play a lot doesn't mean it's not casual.

Expensive materia melds and Alexandrite disagree with you. Since when did 'casuals' have millions of gil to drop on materia for this? A 'casual' is more likely to take the far more acceptable choice of completing a few dungeons, which they'll be doing anyway for normal gear upgrades, and getting their soldiery weapon in a matter of weeks.

This is not casual friendly, and it's clearly not even aimed at casuals due to the repetitive and time consuming nature of every aspect of its design. Haven't got hours upon hours to waste on Atma grinding? Too bad. Got 11/12 atmas but can't get that last one to drop? Enjoy having 11 slots of your inventory effectively wasted while you try. Want animus? Enjoy waiting for 3 hours on a gosh-darned Fate because it refuses to spawn when you're logged in!

The very definition of the world casual means you don't have hours to spend on the game at a sitting, and when you do it's a rare and fleeting thing. I 'casually' completed my animus. Took me MONTHS. In that time I could have earned an ilvl 110 soldiery weapon four times over. Not only would it have been superior to Animus, but a lot less strenuous. I now have little interest to begin Novus because not only does it cost at least HALF the price of a soldiery weapon to begin (3x inks at 250 soldiery each), but the materia costs thereafter are in the multi-millions.

Casual players try to budget their time more effectively. There's very little 'reward' for the zodiac line and a whole lot of work. When you can get an equal or close-to reward by a far quicker and easier means, then there really is no contest.

[Sparktacus]

Expensive materia melds and Alexandrite disagree with you. Since when did 'casuals' have millions of gil to drop on materia for this? A 'casual' is more likely to take the far more acceptable choice of completing a few dungeons, which they'll be doing anyway for normal gear upgrades, and getting their soldiery weapon in a matter of weeks.

This is not casual friendly, and it's clearly not even aimed at casuals due to the repetitive and time consuming nature of every aspect of its design. Haven't got hours upon hours to waste on Atma grinding? Too bad. Got 11/12 atmas but can't get that last one to drop? Enjoy having 11 slots of your inventory effectively wasted while you try. Want animus? Enjoy waiting for 3 hours on a gosh-darned Fate because it refuses to spawn when you're logged in!

The very definition of the world casual means you don't have hours to spend on the game at a sitting, and when you do it's a rare and fleeting thing. I 'casually' completed my animus. Took me MONTHS. In that time I could have earned an ilvl 110 soldiery weapon four times over. Not only would it have been superior to Animus, but a lot less strenuous. I now have little interest to begin Novus because not only does it cost at least HALF the price of a soldiery weapon to begin (3x inks at 250 soldiery each), but the materia costs thereafter are in the multi-millions.

Casual players try to budget their time more effectively. There's very little 'reward' for the zodiac line and a whole lot of work. When you can get an equal or close-to reward by a far quicker and easier means, then there really is no contest.

Exactly this.


Anyone who thinks the relic grind is in any way casual, is completely nuts.

[kyuven]

I love how people complain that there's no mid-range items between "casual" and "hardcore," then we have this thread complaining that what is commonly seen as casual is not casual.
Make up your minds.
Earning alexandrite in and of itself is the definition of casual. The materia melds are expensive not because of a design choice by SE, but because of market values. If you want THE BEST MOST UBER of weapons, you have to be willing to pony up the dough. However, getting materia is very easy. You can get a full set of very nice shiny materia with a decent shot at the more expensive ones if you're willing to invest the money or time.
"Casual" does not necessarily mean it can be done in a week of playing an hour a day. That's absurd for a game's endgame content. Hell that's bad business sense since if it takes a week to accomplish something, what are your casual players going to be doing the other 5-6 weeks between major content patches?
Things take time. It's a purposeful design decision to keep you paying your monthly fee. Deal with it, or quit. Time investment isn't going to change.

[Edeline]

Expensive materia melds and Alexandrite disagree with you. Since when did 'casuals' have millions of gil to drop on materia for this? A 'casual' is more likely to take the far more acceptable choice of completing a few dungeons, which they'll be doing anyway for normal gear upgrades, and getting their soldiery weapon in a matter of weeks.

This is not casual friendly, and it's clearly not even aimed at casuals due to the repetitive and time consuming nature of every aspect of its design. Haven't got hours upon hours to waste on Atma grinding? Too bad. Got 11/12 atmas but can't get that last one to drop? Enjoy having 11 slots of your inventory effectively wasted while you try. Want animus? Enjoy waiting for 3 hours on a gosh-darned Fate because it refuses to spawn when you're logged in!

The very definition of the world casual means you don't have hours to spend on the game at a sitting, and when you do it's a rare and fleeting thing. I 'casually' completed my animus. Took me MONTHS. In that time I could have earned an ilvl 110 soldiery weapon four times over. Not only would it have been superior to Animus, but a lot less strenuous. I now have little interest to begin Novus because not only does it cost at least HALF the price of a soldiery weapon to begin (3x inks at 250 soldiery each), but the materia costs thereafter are in the multi-millions.

Casual players try to budget their time more effectively. There's very little 'reward' for the zodiac line and a whole lot of work. When you can get an equal or close-to reward by a far quicker and easier means, then there really is no contest.

Gathering, crafting or simply SBing yourself a few items a day. People already did/do that. You make it sound as if farming gil is something hard in this game. I didn't even actively farm for gil and still had some millions, plus retainer's rng. You're confusing long time grinding associating it with not being casual, because casuals are suposed to only play 1 hour a day? the rng is there intended to not let you get your weapons in 1 day, however people who really want their relics, invest more time in it, pushing it to the limits.

[RiceisNice]

I love how people complain that there's no mid-range items between "casual" and "hardcore," then we have this thread complaining that what is commonly seen as casual is not casual.
Make up your minds.
Earning alexandrite in and of itself is the definition of casual. The materia melds are expensive not because of a design choice by SE, but because of market values. If you want THE BEST MOST UBER of weapons, you have to be willing to pony up the dough...

Don't confuse People with People.

It's also not the "best most uber" weapon, not by a long shot especially for the novus step. You're right that this is player market driven, but obtaining the materia is rng of its own (especially if you're trying to for grade IV materia, there's no guaranteed converts for these, let alone to get one that isn't a primary stat or elemental)

What I have a problem (and probably a lot others) with is the projected time investment required for the relics versus the alternatives (which would now be ilvl115 with upgraded shiva weapons). Weapon damage is the strongest damage stat for every class (to a varying degree), and even something as easy as shiva would outdamage novus. Unfortunately I can't really see how they can change upon novus because again, it's mostly player driven in regards to price (though that can still flow into obtainin the materia and being lucky with it).

The current relic quest I don't mind so much; it gets nearly all the aspect of the game involved, it helps to know friends who can craft and desyn for you, or if you can even craft yourself (espesically at this late in the game, gearing for 3* is significantly easier now)

[Themis]

Exactly this.
Anyone who thinks the relic grind is in any way casual, is completely nuts.

All that it requires to be "casual" is something that doesn't require a dedicated bit of time, and with that I'd say around 2-3 hours plus in a single block. The entire relic stage, even the first part up to actually getting it, doesn't require large blocks of time investment. It does require a time investment, yes, but that time investment can be made up of 20-30 minute blocks that most people can fit into their day.

Now, I wouldn't say that the relic grind is casual. It's more mid tier, especially if you want to get it at a reasonable rate, in that it requires a decent time investment and a want to work on it. You shouldn't do the relic quests for a quick and easy weapon. If you want quick and easy, that's what the Soldiery weapon is for (and eventually what the Ironworks will be for). But you can do the relic weapon casually; the more casually, though, the longer the time it will take and the longer the time it will be a subpar weapon. And you do the relic weapon because you want something to show people "this is a job I am dedicated to".

And that's it.

The problem with it really lies with the players who want to achieve BiS type weapons. The customisation of the relic makes it really appealing to those who want to maximize on their output even though the difference or a few % dps would only really affect those who are progression world first chasers (and those players have crazy commitment and dedication already). If you don't like the quests, don't do them. Use the other methods of getting gear that is more enjoyable or worth your time. You have a choice.