The Ninja Superthread

[Allyrion]

other point about something that you seems to litterally ignore about positional and the "bonus", they are changing the core mechanic of the combo system for add it. however, and that the point that you seems to miss, the ninja for the people not having heavenward must keep the same balance/dps output than we have now. and how they can do it?

I didn't miss it. I already said I find the whole notion ridiculous.
Do you really know how hard it is to balance classes between one another?
Then to add tools to all the classes and to rebalance around that.
You suggest that not only must they do that, but they have to keep balance of the kits at 50 as well?

50 is now leveling content. They do not balance around leveling content.
If some classes are OP or nerfed at 50, no one cares anymore. The people who don't get Heavensward will just have to get it eventually.
But they certainly don't have to tune balance for two separate endgames with two different kits.

So yea, until you can give a better reason than "cause some people won't buy HW" then I completely deny this reason will play a factor.

[Arkenne]

guts slash.

Its Gust Slash, not Guts, Gust!!
GamerEscape says Gust Slash!!
XIVDB.com says Gust Slash!!
The S and T arent even close in a qwerty keyboard! (I dunno the others)

Please, keep the name of the skills right if you want to defend NIN in any possible way!!

[silentwindfr]

sorry if the namming of the skill is not perfect but english is not my maternal language, but you get my point.

it don't change what i say or try to explain.

I didn't miss it. I already said I find the whole notion ridiculous.
Do you really know how hard it is to balance classes between one another?
Then to add tools to all the classes and to rebalance around that.
You suggest that not only must they do that, but they have to keep balance of the kits at 50 as well?

50 is now leveling content. They do not balance around leveling content.
If some classes are OP or nerfed at 50, no one cares anymore. The people who don't get Heavensward will just have to get it eventually.
But they certainly don't have to tune balance for two separate endgames with two different kits.

So yea, until you can give a better reason than "cause some people won't buy HW" then I completely deny this reason will play a factor.

brillant... simply brillant...
when i did have said that people will not buy HW?

every time you try to counter my argument, your are the one bringing empty word, saying you can do it or we don't have enough information (when it's not always the case).

what i did said, it's for people without heavenward (what will happend) the balance must remain, for you it's now a leveling content, but not for every one. simply ignoring this and try to justify your biased opionion like this is amusing. other point, heavenward only apply to people from 51-60 the add from this level will have no impact on the people level 50 and below. why break the balance they have reach with the jobs while the 2.X simply for allows them to add positional to one jobs.

now i'm tired of all of this... i'm here talking of fact, number and cycle, you come here with nothing... because if you really think that positional will result into an increase of dps, you don't know well how this game did evolve... i will take an example, really close of us, the damage of impulse drive of the dragoon, was 100 potency if you didn't match the positional recquirement and 180 if you was in the rear.... now after they have take out the positional recquirement it's 180 potency. it's how work the combo system, either it allows you to add a buff or debuff... or increase the potency of the skill. it's made as a restriction, for force player to move from side to rear. for force them to adapt more them gameplay around the capacity of the boss.

on the paper positional is brillant when it's well done. like with the monk, where it's perfectly fluid and offer a great pleasure to do it. or it can be frustrating, like was the dragoon before the change, where if you had missing the rear positional of impulse drive... you had to redo it for have the combo.

another point, that i have already pointed, the combo system of the ninja was made as complexe because we hadn't any positional recquirement, it was made differently for force us to make sure we will have something to manage, the dot/debuff refresh. then, how this complexe combo system will work if you add it more complex recquirement, now we will have to pay attention to our debuff/dot.... while paying attention to our position... and still doing the mudra.

i did describe this as dancing one feet while juggling. do it will be fun? do it not turn into a chore? that a question that everybody must answer for themself. for me i'm concerned that it was the easy way to add content to the ninja instead to really work on it.

[Dervy]

another point, that i have already pointed, the combo system of the ninja was made as complexe because we hadn't any positional recquirement, it was made differently for force us to make sure we will have something to manage, the dot/debuff refresh. then, how this complexe combo system will work if you add it more complex recquirement, now we will have to pay attention to our debuff/dot.... while paying attention to our position... and still doing the mudra.

Because the Dragoon and Monk don't do this already. And don't use the argument that "Ninja rotation is more complex!". It really isn't. You can write it down, action to action, exactly like the Dragoon. The only complexity that the Ninja has is Mudras, which are only used on average every 17.5s.

[Houston009]

snip

In what way would it be logical to continue to balance jobs around level 50 when the cap will be 60? Like previously said, Lv. 50 content will be considered leveling content come HW. Anything that would require any type of balance to be done now has echo, so there is no point.

[ChaozK]

because if you really think that positional will result into an increase of dps, you don't know well how this game did evolve... i will take an example, really close of us, the damage of impulse drive of the dragoon, was 100 potency if you didn't match the positional recquirement and 180 if you was in the rear.... now after they have take out the positional recquirement it's 180 potency. it's how work the combo system, either it allows you to add a buff or debuff... or increase the potency of the skill. it's made as a restriction, for force player to move from side to rear.

That is an incorrect example. The rear positional was removed from Impulse Drive and instead added to Chaos Thrust, which would normaly deal 200 potency on its non dot portion, which it still does, but if you execute it from the rear it now deals 250.

So your example is proven wrong, adding positionals can be a dps buff, because it was for DRG.

[Arkenne]

Hmm... something in the latest comments reminded me that one of the reasons of why NIN is getting positionals is because its the only job in the melees that can do its maximum damage from the get-go without any (or too much) of a build up.

SO THIS BRING ABOUT YET ANOTHER INTERESTING IDEA FOR POSITIONALS!!

What if they implement a combo pointers to them? as in if you hit Flank with this skill you get 1 point which could banish in 6 or so seconds, then if you hit this other skill from the Rear you get a 2nd stack of the same for 6 or so seconds. Capping at 5 stacks maybe it could be spent (but not necesarily at 5) into a cool boost like double damage if less at 5 and triple at 5.

Aeolian Edge could maybe give 2 points! So new skill could spend them all :U!!!!

Im not sure what Im smocking but lemme tell you, its stronk @x@

[AzraelX]

since NInja didn't need any new mechanics to upgrade its dps, I'm willing ot bet that the added positionals is the devs ways to increase ninjas's dps but without making too overpowered or overly complicated with a 4th mudra or another weapon combo.

Seems like that was their goal to make ninja stronger, but don't make its core anymore complicated and it seems like they did that with a 3rd finisher to extend huton, dps buff to apply, and one skill that attacks three times.

[Arkenne]

True on that, what I suggest there is not a simple tweak... rather a full revamp :/
Tho I still believe is a good route to bring more for the class.

[Oboros]

No offense but you guys are kidding yourselves if you think positionals could be a buff.
It's a nerf for sure but not as drastic as silent making it seem.

Example AEs potency currently is 320. In HW it will be something like 200 potency 320 from the flank.
Nothing extra which means we have to get our positionals to do the exact same dmg we can do currently.

The chances of positionals being a buff in anyway is slim to none if you don't believe me find when Yoshi P first announced it in the live letter it was clearly introduced as a warning he clearly stated that they wanted to warn us about it early so we won't complain later.
It's a tad upsetting while other jobs get to be excited about how they gonna use their new tools. We have to worry about how to deal with this new limitation.