The Ninja Superthread

[Zeviand]

I have the free version of WTFast, might try the paid version on heavensward release, but, how much different is it?

Honestly the difference wasn't that noticeable. I think I'll try pingzapper after my WTFast premium time is up to see if there's any differences.

[Odowla]

I think you guys are vastly overestimating the difference good mudra speed makes >.>

[Lyrinn]

I think you guys are vastly overestimating the difference good mudra speed makes >.>

When I get moments where even Fuma Shuriken eats into my GCD, there's a huge difference compared to when Raiton barely clips the GCD. Factor that time into a 3-5 minute battle, every 20 seconds, and you see DPS issues. The difference in my dummy parses between on-peak and off-peak times is depressing and makes me not want to play NIN during prime time, ever.

[Ephier]

I think you guys are vastly overestimating the difference good mudra speed makes >.>

Using huton and suiton with anything near 100 ping is annoying. The problem is when you have a rhythm and it is interrupted due to some random server spike.

1...2........3
1......2...3
1.....2.3
1.2...3

Numbers illustrating the way mudras flow in actual combat when you are affected by lag, compared to how they should be

1..2..3

Smooth and fluid.

[Odowla]

Which is why like 90% of my records have been set without a tunneling program, right? Cause slight lag on a mudra = no DPS. Just consider getting good first, then get a really good gearset (mine is really shitty), and THEN if your numbers arent "high" you can blame it on lag. Seriously it's not as important as everyone's making it out to be. I understand the rhythm of mudras, I know how to play the class, and I think people are valuing it WAY too much - yes it affects your DPS, but then so does regular latency for every class. (I get a GCD ahead of my drg friend who plays with 150+ latency after 3:00, for example.. clearly I'm gaining over him after long periods of time, etc)

We got a World Record clear time on T11 the other night, and I wasnt using a tunneler, and we'd had pulls of both the drg and I over 650 with laggier mudras. A bit of mudra lag doesnt equal 0 DPS.

[Ephier]

Which is why like 90% of my records have been set without a tunneling program, right? Cause slight lag on a mudra = no DPS. Just consider getting good first, then get a really good gearset (mine is really shitty), and THEN if your numbers arent "high" you can blame it on lag. Seriously it's not as important as everyone's making it out to be. I understand the rhythm of mudras, I know how to play the class, and I think people are valuing it WAY too much - yes it affects your DPS, but then so does regular latency for every class. (I get a GCD ahead of my drg friend who plays with 150+ latency after 3:00, for example.. clearly I'm gaining over him after long periods of time, etc)

We got a World Record clear time on T11 the other night, and I wasnt using a tunneler, and we'd had pulls of both the drg and I over 650 with laggier mudras. A bit of mudra lag doesnt equal 0 DPS.

I never said anything about DPS not being high. My DPS is perfectly fine. Does not mean that the mudra lag is not annoying. Its like having a 600hp dual clutch automatic car that misses shifts. The car is still fast, but missing shifts will irk you.

[Odowla]

I never said anything about DPS not being high. My DPS is perfectly fine. Does not mean that the mudra lag is not annoying. Its like having a 600hp dual clutch automatic car that misses shifts. The car is still fast, but missing shifts will irk you.

I'm just saying making it out like laging a mudra isnt the worst thing, if you fail the mudra I could see it.

There's also no real solution to it unless they make it so you can go like dancin > jin > spinning edge > ten > gust slash > chi > ninjutsu or something would be the only viable solution imo. Client side control would just mean people would just mash 1 button and do 30 raitons in a row

[Ephier]

I'm just saying making it out like laging a mudra isnt the worst thing, if you fail the mudra I could see it.

There's also no real solution to it unless they make it so you can go like dancin > jin > spinning edge > ten > gust slash > chi > ninjutsu or something would be the only viable solution imo. Client side control would just mean people would just mash 1 button and do 30 raitons in a row

Making mudra client side would not enable one to do raiton 30 times, not even twice. While one button macros would be a thing most definitely you have to wait 20s before your next mudra and you still have to wait for the GCD to come back to do anything so it would not matter. If you are fine with a laggy mudra system, that is fine, but most NIN are not happy with the system.

[Aiurily]

I think you guys are vastly overestimating the difference good mudra speed makes >.>

i feel like we're the only ones who think this

There's also no real solution to it unless they make it so you can go like dancin > jin > spinning edge > ten > gust slash > chi > ninjutsu or something would be the only viable solution imo. Client side control would just mean people would just mash 1 button and do 30 raitons in a row

the issue with this kind of fix is that it delays your ninjutsu rotation if you break it into pieces in between gcd. it makes it so you that you end up having problems with huton falling off on your kassatsu rotations at the bare minimum

[Odowla]

Making mudra client side would not enable one to do raiton 30 times, not even twice. While one button macros would be a thing most definitely you have to wait 20s before your next mudra and you still have to wait for the GCD to come back to do anything so it would not matter. If you are fine with a laggy mudra system, that is fine, but most NIN are not happy with the system.

Then don't be happy with it, but understand why it's in place. It would be SO easy to make a script that would just send raiton or w/e mudra you want, and it can't be capped on the server-side or you get a worse problem where the server just decides to tell you no and then you drop huton, gg your dps.

i feel like we're the only ones who think this

I just feel like acting like its the end-all to Ninja DPS and the whole reason Chloro Cradle does his rediculous numbers is completely and 100% on his lack of mudra delay instead of, i don't know, maybe being skilled and having a really good gearset is the wrong way to think of it. As someone who is in a quite high-level guild and who gets messages/tells all the time i do dedicate a lot of my to knowing the class and understand the deep-down reasoning for certain openers and skill usages that I'm pretty sure It can only come down to gear at this high level of thinking.

I've narrowed it down to the reason i don't get his numbers, optimized strats aside is basically just my gearset, and to a smaller extent, the fact my mudras do have a slight delay. I get 14 mudras in the 5 second window on a good day, he gets 15 mudras, that's barely noticeable. It's coming down to a shitty gearset at this point, though there's not much else I can do unless i feel like buying some crafted pieces and dropping millions on melds just for "dat parse". I'm not trying to say i'm the best or anything like that at all; I'm just saying that once you know your 1 2 3 4 5 6 rotation, your ninjutsu priority, and how do deal with mechanics optimally, it literally comes down to partly lag ( minimally) and largely your gearset. There's nothing else to the classes in this game when you talk about it at a high level like this.