The Ninja Superthread

[Alahra]

I'm the other way, I find NIN far simpler to play than MNK. Since they're adding more things to manage for maximum efficiency on MNK, I'm more than happy to take some positionals and a rotation that's somewhat more variable for NIN. I have a feeling the Huton refresh/extend will just be swapped in for an Aeolian Edge when we need it, though we'll have to see the exact amount to be sure. I wouldn't be surprised if there's more to this three-hit WS than they've let on as well.

[silentwindfr]

Alahra, i can't simply blindly hope that everything will be fine... the rotation of the ninja will become far less variable, actually it's not variable at all. actually what make look like variable it's because of the mudra lag, creating unstability into the cycle.

the monk are quite simple to play, no unknow, no skill that can fail because of the lag and the positional plus the stance system work perfectly together. the cycle is quite simple when you are on the flank you do a combo and another on the rear. actually if the monster don't move much, you don't move that much.
the new skill added are mainly out of Global cooldown capacity, what was lacking the monk.

mark my word, the ninja with positional and the new skill added, will be far more complex to play, not in the good sense of the word, but in the sense that it will be not fluid or smooth... it's not without reason that a lot of ninja are worried and bothered by the announcement of the add of positional or the sole fact to add another finisher after gust slash.

[Karasumori]

Can anyone manage to post me the BiS list for 2.5? I've searched this forum and the sub reddit and for some reason any links to Ariyala's won't work. They just time out. Don't know what's going on.

[Zamii]

ok im going to suggest something here and while some people will say "no no you cant do that because reason X", simple fact is if your skilled enough it can be done.
ninja can use BLM accuracy currently and blow the other classes out of the water due to more det/crit/ss
why? simple, ninja doesn't have any flank positionals, hell, to be honest i did this exact thing in t13 before my group wanted me to monk it.
simple fact is if ninja doesn't get positionals, there's going to be some fights that it simply destroys all other classes due to the lank of a flank allowing it to go for BLM acc, whereas if its balanced with that in mind it will be extremely weak in other fights due to not being able to do that.

[silentwindfr]

i'm not sure make the ninja go with the blm acc will affect anything, i'm curious to see what you really means by this. since ninja most skill are weaponskill and then recquire the same acc than dragoon and monk.

the trouble with the add of positional is not about the jobs is too easy and make it far stronger than other.... since positional have nothing to do with the dps. ninja positional is a trouble since the jobs wasn't designed with it inmind.
the combo system used by the ninja is not adapted. the mudra systeme is broken because of the lag, making it more complex than needed increasing more the difficulty of the jobs... adding positional will simply mess more the jobs. instead to make it more fun or more interesting it will make it more complicate for nothing. since positional is only a mere restriction, not a boost.

ninja have still the only systeme broken (mudra and it lag), a combo system quite basic (actually we are only using one combo branching with 3 finisher, spinning edge are the starting point of everything), the only positional unforgiving (TA still work like the previous positional system dragoon was using, making if you miss the positional, you don't get the effect of the skill)
and they plan to add positional on top of this? seriously... you did notice that a tons of ninja have already drop out of the jobs simply because of the mudra lag.... and believe me the add of the positional will not please player it will frustrate them more than anything.

i don't say is not possible to use positional, but that the skill level recquirement will be too high for most player.

[Zamii]

i'm not sure make the ninja go with the blm acc will affect anything, i'm curious to see what you really means by this. since ninja most skill are weaponskill and then recquire the same acc than dragoon and monk.

let me explain a little further then, accuracy requirements are brocken up into 3 sections for each boss, frontal, flank and rear.
the reasoning behind monk and dragoon using the flank accuracy is because well you need to hit your flank positionals.
casting classes however are considered to always hit the rear of a target, this allows them to use lower accuracy, with the exception of summoner which has diminished values toward its pet.

what makes ninja different to the other melle is it doesnt have any flank positionals (currently) which means you can position yourself behind the boss at all times without a lose in dps due to missing positionals, this then allows you to use the rear, or BLM, accuracy cap.

[Houston009]

In the expansion, the skill level requirement to play every job effectively is raising.

[Arkenne]

Well, as Silent already mentioned it, NIN has a lot of skills branching from the same beginning so yep, positionals doesnt sound very appealing as it is... since unlike MNK they would go for positional of Spinning then positional of Gust... and repeat...

However, doesnt this also allow a new potential possibility?

What if... for example Spinning Edge, had not just one, but 2 positional effects?
As in Spinning Edge done on the Flank does more damage, and the very same Spinning Edge done from the back extends Huton in a bit.
Same story could be said about Gust Slash, since its almost as repetitive as Spinning Edge.

This could open the posibility for a more varied NIN gameplay relating positionals and losing nothing really, imo... if it were to happen like this...

There are other things that could bring about interesting stuff for NIN with positionals...
Like:
- Reduce CDs waiting time by 1 second.
- Extend/increase Dancing Edge effect.
- Extend/increase DoTs effect.
- Give a stackable buff to spend on something later.

Clearly I am just dreaming here... positionals will happen, and if they are like MNK or how they were for DRG... it could be sad... but Im hoping they impress me.

[silentwindfr]

i doubt they have gone this far, from the announcement, no new thing simply more restriction.
they don't plan to rework our jobs, simply add positional to our jobs, because... i have said it too much, the real reason behind adding our positional is because other community did complain about the lack of positional for us. that the truth. you don't change the design of a jobs after more of 6 month for other reason.

Clearly I am just dreaming here... positionals will happen, and if they are like MNK or how they were for DRG... it could be sad... but Im hoping they impress me.

if the positional is the same amount than monk, most of the ninja will drop
if the positional is like what was the dragoon before... same.

what astonished me is the fact that instead to make the jobs more fun and appealing.... they are making it more frustrating and unpleasant. it's dumb!
i have never seen that before, i have seen jobs too powerfull get a nerf into the damage or the speed at which the skill can come out, but never i have seen a jobs be nerfed in this way. never seen a jobs get more restriction about it way to be played. how you can make people want to play ninja, when Dragoon and monk will be far easier to be played and more important less frustrating!

[Oboros]

My biggest issue with the positonals is the fact that trick attack is our current positional and it's Off the GCD. Let's say Spinning edge is flank and so is shadow fang it will be extremely tight and annoying to go flank > back as your ogcd > flank again.
Having to do that in a high stress moment during a raid while dodging/mechanics will be really difficult imo.
Imagine if steel peek was flank and howling fist was rear? Monks would really be unhappy. I just think having ogcd with positionals is flawed it was fine since our weapon skills had none but now I have a bad feeling about it.