The Ninja Superthread

[Cexikitin]

Adding positionals to Ninja is very souring. The last thing Ninja needs is the same arbitrary tediousness that plagues the other two melee; here's to hoping it's not too invasive like Dragoon's recent positional overhaul.

Exactly this!
If I wanted to play DDR I would play mnk or drg.

I very much enjoy ninja in its current form, I currently loathe when a mob spins to face someone and trick attack gets wasted and can only expect its going to feel the same for whatever they add it to.

[Pluvia]

This is not from this thread just brought it over so i wouldn't have to retype a new context to my post

Sorry, but I have to lol at nin complaining about positional requirements.. Seriously. If you don't want them then go play a bard or caster or tank or healer.. MNK and DRG have had them the whole time.. There's still plenty of MNK and DRG out there, isn't there? Hitting a positional is a rewarding challenge, there is not challenge to stand in one spot and mash buttons. What a lazy attitude lol


Anyways.. Maybe they'll change goad, maybe not. As selfish as most NIN seem to be acting about their positionals, then they'd prolly just be selfishly using it on themselves the whole time anyways lol. I also doubt the enmity reduction ability will be able to troll tanks, there's no need to reduce enmity of the top target, really, only the gap between 1st and 2nd in aggro, or maybe it will have a stipulation such as "has no effect on tank jobs". It will be a niche use ability, no doubt, but us DRG and MNK will love it when you help us not pull off the tanks since we are gonna be so OP :P

(yes, that was a cheap shot lol)

The whole point of this is not to enrage you guys, just want to point out, it's so early, with little information being released. Why get all worked up over it before it actually comes out? I doubt NIN is going to become the red headed stepchild of FFXIV, if anything that's where SMN is heading.. xD

Naw just more of a slap to the face here have some positionals screw what we said about almost no positionals and making up with it for ninjutsu screw making it technical instead of positional we take back what we said and here have some more useless utility oh and enjoy another nerf to goad.(yes i know we have no clue what the abilties are that are coming for sure just from what we've heard I look at it all in a anything can change way. they could change goad completely and make it better)

Instead we get a dps right now that equals monk doesn't have but 2 positionals has mudra lag has people posting parse on dummies causing buthurt crybaby monks(not most of the monk just the really retarded ones) to bitch on the forums about the moment speed buff ninja has (gg no good ninja really cares about it you can have it and please take the less fall damage trait as well) yes i agree monk should be top dps as of now(not so if the new mechanics make GL retard easy though and how does this matter when you compare dps.)

TLDR: Say fuck the positionals fix mudra lag and make ninjas more technical instead of positional. no postionals will not ruin the class but you damn well sure better not be bitching when ninjas end up either tied with monk or overtake monks because SE goes full retard at the start of the expansion and over compensate buffs instead of balancing all 3 melee.

[Arkenne]

It would be interesting if the only benefit from positional was the prolonging of Huton.

[Odowla]

Really you should stop speculating so badly ans saying you'll quit the class

how do you know aeolian edge from behind isnt going to be 600 potency

exactly

you don't.

Don't bitch about mechanics we don't even know yet. It makes no sense for ninja to have a overhaul of mechanics less than a year after it came out; the class was made with heavensward changes in mind. Like, why bother releasing NIN before the expansion if it's not finished and they need to flesh out all the mechanics again; why not just wait.

That's why they're addressing the problems of the other classes, some of them have design flaws or problems with their kits since we've not had a change in a year and a half almost. and Those are what are being addressed. There's NO REASON to completetly overhaul how you play ninja when they already knew what they wanted ninja to look like in expansion.

We also don't even know if it's all a back positional or if its all a flank, literally pointless to bitch, you'll look like such a retard when it comes out and you just haveto stand at the side until its time to trick attack then go back to standing at the side continuing to 123.


Also you really should stfu about ninja being weak, Monk side rotation is like 500 dps

ninja doing 123 123 123 123 123 using Trick + cooldowns is 600 dps. That's pretty good for just 123'ing if you ask me.

[silentwindfr]

ninja don't do 123, you are far from the reality...

the ninja have a cycle quite unstable because we need to replace one dot in combo every 18 second, where the other one is out of combo and have a duration of 30 second, more important the mudra that can mess up the cycle because of the lag. normally a 3 mudra skill must take 1.5-1.7 second but with the lag it's often over 2.2-2.3 when our gcd is often under 2.1.

other point the ninjutsu mechanic is the only mechanic that can failed! no monk nor dragoon nor summoner nor black mage nor even bard have a skill that can simply fail and loose a 20 second CD.

ohh before i forget, we do have the biggest cycle of the game.... far over the one of the dragoon, our cycle is 60-70 second. the time needed for refresh Huton, only the ninjutsu take 11 imput (3 for raiton, 4 from huton and 4 for suiton) we use 3 type of combo and i don't talk of the outgcd skill.... seriously, i play both monk and ninja, monk have the easy way in comparaison, the positional fight of the monk are extremely simple (if the tank is not a moron)
you navigate between 2 combo, one for the side and one for the back, depending of the time for the dot you make a small variation for the end of the combo...

seriously monk are still the best dps out, if you are beaten by a ninja, you need to train more dude!

ps: next time before come talk of a jobs, try to play it a bit....

[ClaireAbigail]

ninja don't do 123, you are far from the reality...
ps: next time before come talk of a jobs, try to play it a bit....

Hey buddy...you should uuhh reread what Odo is saying. Odo is trying to say that ONLY doing 1-2-3 plus cd and TA will land you that dps. A Monk doing ONLY flank will do that amount of dps(theoretically). He didn't say that ninja's rotation only involves a three button rotation.



PS: a lot of people who mains monk also plays ninja and vice versa. Watch who you try to sass buddy! Make sure you're ahead of them achievement wise!

[Viridiana]

ninja don't do 123, you are far from the reality...

the ninja have a cycle quite unstable because we need to replace one dot in combo every 18 second, where the other one is out of combo and have a duration of 30 second, more important the mudra that can mess up the cycle because of the lag. normally a 3 mudra skill must take 1.5-1.7 second but with the lag it's often over 2.2-2.3 when our gcd is often under 2.1.

other point the ninjutsu mechanic is the only mechanic that can failed! no monk nor dragoon nor summoner nor black mage nor even bard have a skill that can simply fail and loose a 20 second CD.

ohh before i forget, we do have the biggest cycle of the game.... far over the one of the dragoon, our cycle is 60-70 second. the time needed for refresh Huton, only the ninjutsu take 11 imput (3 for raiton, 4 from huton and 4 for suiton) we use 3 type of combo and i don't talk of the outgcd skill.... seriously, i play both monk and ninja, monk have the easy way in comparaison, the positional fight of the monk are extremely simple (if the tank is not a moron)
you navigate between 2 combo, one for the side and one for the back, depending of the time for the dot you make a small variation for the end of the combo...

seriously monk are still the best dps out, if you are beaten by a ninja, you need to train more dude!

ps: next time before come talk of a jobs, try to play it a bit....

I think you misunderstand what Odowla meant by the 123 comment. NIN keeping up Huton and doing 123 can do 600 DPS, I believe is what he was saying. Compared to a MNK losing more DPS if stuck doing a flank-only rotation. Which I'm not sure about the accuracy of, but it's still best to argue against what the person is saying.

That said, I believe you're vastly over-rating the difficulty of the NIN rotation. Huton if it's about to fall, Suiton if TA is up, Fuma otherwise (Raiton if you can fit it without clipping). Dancing Edge if there's no WAR and the debuff is about to fall, Shadow Fang or Mutilate if they're about to fall, Aeolian Edge if you have time.

Also, you can't say that we have a longer cycle than DRG based on our oGCD skills and then ignore the DRG oGCD skills. If we have a 70 second cycle because of Huton, then DRG has a 120 second one because of DFD. To count it otherwise would be dishonest.

[Houston009]

seriously monk are still the best dps out, if you are beaten by a ninja, you need to train more dude!

Do you have proof, or is this just from your own experiences?

[silentwindfr]

check the number of input of skill we need to do. and clearly if you do only huton+123 you will never reach 600 dps....

same do Fuma shuriken is a huge loose of dps, even if it save the trouble of the lag, (what it's less important on raiton) it's still far from the cycle of the ninja. monk cycle is a repetition based on the dot timer, you will mover from side to back and change the combo only when the timer of the dot is about to finish. outside this, they have the most stable cycle of the whole dps.

other point even if we scraps the last stroke of the cycle until Huton refresh, you still have a 40+ second cycle wth a ton of input. i play dragoon, ninja and monk, i have all of them to max level and did spend a fair amount of time on each (more on monk i admit) and ninja have the most complex and unstable cycle of the 3. the fact that pretending to get a 600 dps from huton + 123 is simply idiot and false.

the cycle of the monk is quite fluid (tank the stance system) the only hard part is the positioning.
the cycle of the dragoon is long in the duration, the only part? none, dragoon is by far the either jobs to play as dps.
the cycle of the ninja is not stable nor fluid, mostly because of some error of conception that lead to a situation where the cycle is a mess. ninjutsu with the mudra lag are not something that fit into the cycle like pressing a button for a out gcd skill. it recquire 3-4 skill to be used correctly and can fail and punish the player messing around.

do the dragoon or monk have this sort of situation where they are not getting the skill wanted? nope, the only difficulty for the monk are the phase where they loose them self buff, for the dragoon is more because player are not attentive and use jump at the wrong moment. (even if i feel they need to improve the mechanic a bit)

soo far actually the top dps is the Monk not the ninja and the ninja is not as simple than a looooot of player try to say.

ps: 600 dps on a short duration is not really 600 dps... because if that was the case a black mage will be around 2000+ dps with huge aoe phase in some area...

[Odowla]

.

I did like 15 runs of t11, going literally 123 123 123 123 with trick attack, cooldowns, and Fuma Shuriken ONLY, with the warrior maintaining Dancing edge, and finished all of them at 590+. in the same situation, doing only side rotation only, a monk does 500. That's the comparison i'm making in favor of positionals for a ninja, considering you could stand at the back the WHOLE fight, and do 20% more than a monk.. Yeah that's pretty strong.

And no MNK isnt #1 DPS. They're all close to equal, but a ninja can do 700 on a dummy with a warrior providing the debuff - the others don't even get close.