The Ninja Superthread

[Odowla]

You do them both in between GCD's.

[Lavieh]

Alright, will try it out later when I get the chance, thanks.

I would recommend against this unless you have smooth latency.

[Aiurily]

you can already fit 2 shadow fangs in BFB at normal skillspeeds (360-390)

to fit them without casting BFB right before shadowfang you'd need less than 2.00 gcd either way

the appeal of skillspeed beyond its value of more gcds in x amount of time is that it lets you more easily

1. clip your dancing edge at 0.1s duration consistently for +26 potency. in raids like t10, t11, t13, not an issue at all because warrior is applying eye most of the time anyway. t12 is the exception for parts of p1/p2 where the warrior will be on a bennu
2. make your rotation more "smooth" so you have less chance to let your dots drop off and potentially miss a tick

the issue with #2 is that actually, at some point in the rotation you can be forced to clip your dots earlier than usual (@2s~ or so instead of 0-1s) or let them drop off for 2 or more ticks (the former is more preferable obviously). it's not a common occurrence, but at some point in the standard rotation it does happen. this is with the standard skillspeed, (380-390) so dropping down to 2.0gcd would just make that clipping slightly worse, sort of negating the benefits of less dot downtime imo. and if you use fuma over raiton it makes it more likely to happen as well. that's how it is for me anyway; for more laggy players, it might not happen though.

[Odowla]

I feel like a little more than 440 sks is pretty much optimal from what I was noticing over hundreds of attempts going for my 640.

Seemed like the runs with 440 sks were higher and easier to fit 1 more gcd into trick attack which is huge, especially in the opener I get to go Trick > Kass rather than Kass > Trick to fit the Aeolian Edge right at the end, its super sketch otherwise/

also lol @ experimenting

experimenting is good but not when you dismiss any build that has anything higher than 250 ss

Also if you've ever played a base skillspeed monk its pretty cancerous, same as ninja, doesnt flow well and feels boring

[treuhavik]

experimenting is good but not when you dismiss any build that has anything higher than 250 ss

Also if you've ever played a base skillspeed monk its pretty cancerous, same as ninja, doesnt flow well and feels boring

I assume that "250 ss" was meant to be the 425 I mentioned, because 341 is base. I'm not "dismissing" any builds either. His experimental build just shocked me, as it has nearly 500 SkSp and less than 300 Det. I didn't mean to offend you. If 440 works for you then that's great, and if someone else is able to make 494 SkSp work, more power to 'em.

In our first few T10s, when I had around 433 SkSp, I was hitting E at least once each attempt, leaving me waiting for Invig to come off CD. More recently, at 424, I was fine. Dreadwyrm Earrings put me at 419 - we'll see how that fairs tomorrow.

On MNK I prefer to stay around 400.

[Lavieh]

I feel like a little more than 440 sks is pretty much optimal from what I was noticing over hundreds of attempts going for my 640.

440 SKS is a huge amount. That is how you get TP starved early and even in raid content where a Bard could keep you up you increase your chances of needing a second Paeon which will further reduce his DPs and whatever Mages dps you have in the party.

Even at 389 I sometimes struggle making it to the second invigorate without bottoming out a little before. At 440 you are going to be bled dry 20 seconds before you get to your second. That is a TP life time of almost 2:40/2:45. I hope that was a typo or something, that is how you effectively kill your DPS.

[Odowla]

440 SKS is a huge amount. That is how you get TP starved early and even in raid content where a Bard could keep you up you increase your chances of needing a second Paeon which will further reduce his DPs and whatever Mages dps you have in the party.

Even at 389 I sometimes struggle making it to the second invigorate without bottoming out a little before. At 440 you are going to be bled dry 20 seconds before you get to your second. That is a TP life time of almost 2:40/2:45. I hope that was a typo or something, that is how you effectively kill your DPS.

Which is why I make it to the second invigorate every time on my NIN and MNK with 440+ SKS, right? Because I can't last that long? MNK has it worse and I get an invig at 2:55 or so, on the last GCD before I'd be waiting for a tick.

Time your invig better, seriously you can get 4:00 parses really easily if you learn to master the first invig.

[Lavieh]

Time your invig better, seriously you can get 4:00 parses really easily if you learn to master the first invig.

I use my invigorate right after the first Huton with 389 SKS which puts me at around 980ish TP.

You probably have really bad Mudra lag, Use Raiton and double squeeze oGCD's inbetween your GCD. All of which slow your TP Consumption. Either that or you are incredibly slow.

[Odowla]

I get 1k tp for 3 gcd's in a row. And no, very low mudra lag.

Here's a Link to my 640 demonstrating 3 GCD's of 1k TP.

Seriously, Just time the Invig REALLY well and Skillspeed barely does anything, unless you have crazy amounts (I got the same timing with 455, though..)

[Lavieh]

Clip I didn't watch

You had 378 Skill speed in that video.

Also did you really just say that Skill speed does nothing? Anything above 420 SKS will have you bottomed out 1 or 2 GCD's before you hit the second invigorate, unless you have some form of latency issues.

No offence but I'm fairly confident that I have put a lot more time, effort and thought into this than you.