The Ninja Superthread

[Hivernica]

Hello everyone
I'm level 54 right and I just picked up armor crush. It sounded awesome until I tried it on a dummy. I'm having a bit of trouble.
I'm not sure when to use it. I use it the first time when I reach about 40 secs on Huton, but then it just starts to get messy. I have trouble telling when to use AE instead and keeping DE SF and MUT up without any falling off or clipping badly (by badly I mean with around 5secs remaining). When I try to keep everything up and using AE as much as possible, Huton often reaches around 15secs before I can use armor crush safely, is that normal?
I also can't really fit 2 oGCD into one GCD, so Jugulate and Mug often stay unused for about 2 GCDs. I'm also using Shuriken instead of Raiton, which I find disappointing but at least it doesn't clip my GCD as much as Raiton. With even more to come (Duality and DwD), I'm kinda afraid of being a terrible ninja, which would suck since I liked the job so much before 3.0.

Right now I'm practicing the rotation and positionals on a dummy but I figured I'd ask my questions here before picking up any bad habit.

[IchinoseYua]

As for myself I'm just using armor crush when Fuuton < 20sec and prioritizing DE over everything. I can post a video later for EU people (regarding ping and gcd clipping), since mudra lag really fuck us.

[Hivernica]

I'm not from EU but GCD clipping is one of my biggest pet peeves and I can't help but feel terrible whenever it happens :/

I'd be really interested in such a video!

[Arkenne]

Armor Crush is crushing my rotation D:

Just think of AC as an AE that you must do from the side instead of the back.
Huton with 70~41seconds = No need for AC.
Huton with 40~21seconds = AC can happen but has no priority.
Huton with 20~1seconds = AC must happen or you'll regret it.
However the matter of if its better to risk losing DE for the sake of an AC input is something I've yet to math out... MU and SF retail their position since they arent really affected. So AC priorities only apply against AE.

In other words, DE, MU and SF aren't really affected.
Whenever an AE is supposed to happen, check if extending Huton is necessary. If it is, AC, if its not, AE.

Other than that you are just having troubles building up muscle memory, and believe me, Level Synch is a b!tch for this.

[Hivernica]

Thanks. I only just picked it up, so I'm not too worried about muscle memory right now.

[IchinoseYua]

http://www.twitch.tv/vivialhazerd/v/6896688 (seems like the video is buged, blame twitch)

not perfect but oh well, its quite representative, my ping is between 130-100ms depending on days. Well anyway, with good ping and good crit you can get this kind of parse http://gyazo.com/3c2aff3bd8f0eaaaba88a1c2781be38a even if I hate 2mn parse.

[Hivernica]

http://www.twitch.tv/vivialhazerd/v/6896688 (seems like the video is buged, blame twitch)

not perfect but oh well, its quite representative, my ping is between 130-100ms depending on days. Well anyway, with good ping and good crit you can get this kind of parse http://gyazo.com/3c2aff3bd8f0eaaaba88a1c2781be38a even if I hate 2mn parse.

Thanks, it's good to see how other people play. I think I'm comparing myself to when I played dragoon and I had months of practice, unlike ninja.

[ChaozK]

another point, dragoon effect generally last far longer than our:
- Disembowel = 30 second, dancing edge = 20 second
- chaos thrust = 30 second, shadowfangs = 18 second
- Phlebotomize = 24 second, Mutilate = 30 second (the only one we have of longer)

even if our combo pre heavensward will be close of the dragoon, since our duration are shorter we will need to applicate them more often. and all of this while still using ninjutsu that is every 20 second.

DRGs timers are that long because they are slower and and their combos are longer. It is not meant to give DRGs more wiggle room compared to NIN, its rather the bare minimum they need to be able to use every skill (10 skills*2.5 GCD= 25 sec - its actually 1 sec short of keeping everything up, which is the reason why DRGs are now hoarding skillspeed to recude their GCD to 2.4).

What i am trying to say is that NINs timers are shorter because they can be. DRGs heavy thrust and phlebotomize were actually 20s and 18s respectively in ARR. This was because without the Heavensward skills the rotation was shorter, 8 skills*2.5= 20 secs, the shortest it could be at that time.)

I hope it all makes more sense to you now.

[silentwindfr]

i think you miss my point, i was not complaining about the duration, but more saying we will have still more to do than simply 1-2-3, since with the shorter timer, we will use them more often.

another point important, it will make the ninja less dependant of the warrior since it will become easier to maintain our debuff. if that make us pre heavensward more like a dragoon, it's a small price.
another point, dragoon effect generally last far longer than our:
- Disembowel = 30 second, dancing edge = 20 second
- chaos thrust = 30 second, shadowfangs = 18 second
- Phlebotomize = 24 second, Mutilate = 30 second (the only one we have of longer)

even if our combo pre heavensward will be close of the dragoon, since our duration are shorter we will need to applicate them more often. and all of this while still using ninjutsu that is every 20 second.

this part is important since the discution was about make the ninja be look like a dragoon in terms of combo, with the change of position of DE.

and it's important to note that with the addition of AC, we do get one more combo and option. the trouble with this, is at it stand, our dps change drastically with a warrior landing Storm's eye for us. no other jobs can have them dps change this much.

the point it's to normalize our dps, and make our dps don't change this much because a warrior or another ninja is around. some can argue that bard/machinist dps is increase by Dragoon, but it's not because the dragoon use a skill that machinist and bard have. it's a synergie, the dragoon skill affect the bard and machinist increasing them damage.

but there with ninja/warrior situation, it's not synergie, it's them do our jobs for make us deal far more dps.
arkenne did show that on a 180 duration, the gain will be 660+66 potency. it's quite important, it's more than 2 free AE.

by changing the position of DE we can normalize the dps of the ninja and don't make it be hit by the nerf stick because of the warrior interaction. because soo far, most of the test that was done by ninja on dummy was done without a warrior and our dps was slightly below a monk. what will happend if the warrior is there?

the difference of dps will become quite important as the time pass, more with better gears since we simply get 660+66 potency gain per 180 second.

we can argue all day about this fact, but this number is not mine, but Arkenne number. and what bother me, it's the fact that SE did not notice this... because soo far our dps is aligned with the two other dps. when we are without help. with help our dps can become quite enormous.

do someone have try this setup? and not on 180 second, but more on 5-10 minute duration, the time high level content will take.

[IchinoseYua]

5-10 minutes is not possible for Nin since you are out of tp at 4mn mark or 4mn20 depending of skill speed. So you would need another Bard/Nin which feels sad to see a class that reliant on other jobs.