The Ninja Superthread

[Lurel]

@Lurel

If you're on pc, you can use a vpn like wtfast or battleping. If you're on console, then yeah, not much you can do unfortunately...

Yeah I'm on PC, I'll check them out. I've never had to use any 3rd party programs for any MMO, especially maintaining 70ms, it's just something with those mudras....
Thanks

[silentwindfr]

The only reason why dancing edge is lower is because it also gives the healing debuff. If it wasn't for that it'd probably be longer.

personally, the healing debuff is something i really don't care! it's more for the pvp than pve. all i see for now that it make our whole cycle a pain to do it correctly, more important it make us dependant of another jobs for be able to do our top dps.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah I'm on PC, I'll check them out. I've never had to use any 3rd party programs for any MMO, especially maintaining 70ms, it's just something with those mudras....
Thanks

I was able to maintain a stable 500-550 dps on final coil before the expansion came out (ilvl125) with 140 ping. But that could be way better with 70 ping :c

[Elizabeth]

Ravana Ex
From a japanese friend.

[Taranok]

Yeah I'm on PC, I'll check them out. I've never had to use any 3rd party programs for any MMO, especially maintaining 70ms, it's just something with those mudras....
Thanks

WTFast is worth it. For me, my ping is fine (sub-100), but I get random packet loss spikes due to an idiotic router bouncing the connection from New York (state) to London back to Quebec, and the London node is just....horrible, to say the least. But when you get a proper half-second cooldown on the Mudras, it is pure nirvana. I really hope the devs decouple the mudras from needing the server to talkback before advancing. It's a little bit too high on the "We're paranoid of our playerbase," scale so long as the devs actually check to see that the resulting combo is valid.

Ravana Ex
From a japanese friend.

Fun to see some damage numbers.


Anyways, if Dancing Edge purely has a 20s duration because of PVP, then the devs can, and have, adjusted debuff timers to fit the game mode. We already see it on abilities such as stuns, roots, etc. As it stands, however, unless you have a warrior or second ninja, the NIN rotation is awful and not that interesting. It takes too long to recover from boss mechanics that cause you to lose DPS uptime if you want to maximize DPS due to trying to rebuild the Huton buffer, and it really just isn't as fun as it could be because of it.

Seriously, Dancing Edge is a real problem right now in the rotation, and I am going to iterate this until the problem is recognized and, ideally, resolved, as I really hate having to do a horribly complex rotation when a WAR isn't present, and a horribly simple rotation when a WAR is. I just want one smooth, consistent rotation that doesn't change from someone elses class being present that is a quasi priority system like the class used to have pre-HW, just expanded because the quasi priority system wasn't great pre-HW either (Armor Crush really is a good ability design wise for the class). I don't think the NIN needs more, or less, DPS (I don't know where it truthfully falls in the grand scheme, so I feel whatever change is made keeps the NIN more or less the same), but my primary combo being a stupid slashing resistance debuff is simply absurd.

The best change is probably to simply make DE part of a 3 step combo going from Spinning Edge to Dancing Edge to Shadow Fang, as then it's in the same boat as the Dragoon's Disembowel into Chaos Thrust, the timings are already great on the 2 abilities anyways (they'd guarantee solid uptime from such a change, short of maybe needing +2 seconds on each ability or allowing them to barely fall off), and it frees up the primary rotation to be what made the NIN so fun pre-HW, in that the rotation was about keeping up what needed to be kept up when it did, and otherwise falling back to a relatively simple rotation that is made more complicated due to Armor Crush. (Seriously, I love Armor Crush, I just hate Dancing Edge now).

It will smooth out the classes rotation, make it consistent regardless of allied classes with the exception of short-term steroids like Selene's attack speed boost (which hits everyone), and make it flow a hell of a lot better.

[Elizabeth]

The best change is probably to simply make DE part of a 3 step combo going from Spinning Edge to Dancing Edge to Shadow Fang, as then it's in the same boat as the Dragoon's Disembowel into Chaos Thrust, the timings are already great on the 2 abilities anyways...

That would be AWESOME.

[silentwindfr]

yeah, that the only way out soo far.... but the question do they will do it?

same two other concern:
- the first is smoke bomb utility versu shadowalker, why reduce the hate of a target (when most of the jobs around outside monk have access to that sort of skill too) when you can simply increase the enmity of the tank?
- the second is more a QoL change needed, why now the poison are unequiped when we enter in ilevel synch dungeon and fate, i means before that was not the case, but now it's trully a pain. before it was working like Defiance and the oath.

[Arkenne]

... God they are multiplying...

Well, I parsed myself... in excel... cuz of course I have a lot of things to do at work right now!
My result in a calculated rotation under the next conditions:

- Based on dummy fight.
- 180 seconds long.
- 2 seconds GCD, 90 actions.
- No oGCD were considered.
- Rotation started at 0 seconds wait time of Huton application.
- Rotation was started as my favorite: MU » DE » SF » AE only for personal preference.

+ Dancing Edge had 11 inputs: Seconds 8, 24, 42, 58, 76, 94, 110, 128, 144, 162 & 180
+ Aeolian Edge had 5 inputs: Seconds 18, 36, 86, 104 & 156
+ Armor Crush had 5 inputs: Seconds 52, 70, 122, 138 & 172

The rotation cycled as:
DE(8) » AE(18) » DE(24) » AE(36) »
DE(42) » AC(52) » DE(58) » AC(70) »
DE(76) » AE(86) » DE(94) » AE(104) »
DE(110) » AC(122) » DE(128) » AC(138) »
DE(144) » AE(156) » DE(162) » AC(172) » DE(180)
~ 40 seconds of Huton remaining at the end.

Potency lost by replacing AE for AC: 200 + 20 from DE
Potency gained by replacing Huton reappliance for Shuriken: 720 + 72 from DE
Potency gained by replacing Huton reappliance for Raiton: 1080

And just for the hell of it, how would the NIN rotation in 180 seconds look if someone else is sustaining the slashing debuff?
Warning: boring stuff ahead, oh, and the whole post over all... whops?

AE » AE » AE » AE » AE » AC » AE » AC »
AE » AE » AE » AE » AE » AC » AE » AC »
AE » AE » AE » AC » AE

Potency gained by replacing DE for AE when DE is being sustained by a 3rd party: 660 + 66 from DE

Something I have to agree with is that its true that DE feels overused while solo playing. Since its currently our strongest finisher when hitting an enemy that is aiming at us, using it again when the monster already had the debuff going feels like a waste :/

[SkyRobo1]

b4b - se - ir - gs - xpot - de - suiton - se - TA - kassatsu - sf - raiton - mutilate - dwd - se - mug + jug - gs - duality - ae

put it in the description now =)!

Thank you

[silentwindfr]

Potency gained by replacing DE for AE when DE is being sustained by a 3rd party: 660 + 66 from DE

no one ask for replace DE, but for make it more smooth to use it.... other point Dummy fight is not real fight! use dummy fight as demonstration lead to nothing.
finally, by making this change they open more option for later add of skill.... because soo far after the add of AC, the possibility to add new weaponskill is really limited.

the point it's to improve the ninja, not by making it stronger, but making him weaponskill combo more smooth and less dependant of other.
the difference of damage by the fact that some else put the same effect than DE in our place is not negligable.... 660+66 it's quite important, find me another jobs that will get this much dps for having one of him skill used by other?
none!
- dragoon will place them debuff since it's part of them combo!
- monk will still do it for have a smoother experience between flank and rear combo.


one more time, by making DE part of the combo with SF we don't loose dps nor really gain a ton of it, we will get a smoother combo system, more important we will not get more dps from warrior presence since DE will always be included into our cycle!