The Ninja Superthread

[Arkenne]

DE > SF > MU > AE gives me the best results

Yea, DE is pretty aggresive opener, this falls into personal opinion so I won't tell you your option is bad. NIN is cool because of things like this.
Of all the combos MU is the weakest instant damage, which gives the Tank the most time to build aggro without us stealing the spotlight, which I guess has been the case more often than not with unprepared tanks for you, Shadewalker ftw.

After all we are comparing a 60 potency GCD against a 150 potency GCD.
Please take into account that DoT's worth comes with time.
In a 30 seconds parse, an opener started with MU > SF > DE will do more damage in the short term than DE > SF > MU, because the DoTs will have more active time.
Besides, DoTs damage isn't affected by DE's slashing debuff, so there is no point in placing DE before MU and SF for their DoT property.
DoTs then are better on the sooner they are casted on the oponent.

The reason of why I prefer mine is just for my habit of opening the boss battle with 0 seconds Huton wait time. Since it works for me as a filler for 20 seconds for the real thing.

[Elizabeth]

Hey guys, does anyone know an updated and good opener? I want to know if it includes some of the new skills or not.

[Arkenne]

Entirely up to personal opinion... but again.

With Huton, Suiton, Kassatsu, Blood for Blood and Internal Release active (pot if you want to add it)
Whatever comes first » DE > SE(TA) > SF(Ninjutsu) > MU(DwD) > SE(Mug) > GS(Jug + Duality) > AE[All buffs falls here] or:
Whatever comes first » DE > SE(TA) > SF(Ninjutsu) > SE(DwD) > GS(Jug + Duality) > AE(Mug) > MU[All buffs falls here]

Jug, Duality, Mug and TA/SA animation lock are so short you can actually wind them in just like Mudras.

You actually have time to wind in 5 GCD in between TA.
Of course you want to place your strongest weaponskills there, these are SF, MU and AE.
But these combos are for a total of 6 GCD, for this very reason it is necesary that TA happens right inbetween SE and SF.


An example off the top of my head with Huton timer on 56 seconds:
Suiton while closing in > SE(BFB) > GS(Kassatsu) > DE(IR) > SE(TA)[Suiton ends] > SF(Ninjutsu)[Kassatsu ends] > SE(DwD) > GS(Jug + Dual) > AE(Mug) > MU[TA ends] > SE[IR and BFB ends] ~ {Opener aprox time of 18 seconds}

Another example off the top of my head with Huton timer on 70 seconds:
Huton while closing in > MU » DE » SF » AE(BFB) > SE(Suiton) > GS(IR) > DE(Kassatsu) > SE(TA)[Suiton ends] > SF(Ninjutsu)[Kassatsu ends] > MU(DwD) > SE(Mug) > GS(Jug + Dual) > AE[TA ends] > SE[BFB + IR ends] ~ {Opener aprox time of 36 seconds}

[Elizabeth]

Entirely up to personal opinion... but again.

With Huton, Suiton, Kassatsu, Blood for Blood and Internal Release active (pot if you want to add it)
Whatever comes first > DE > SE(TA) > SF(Ninjutsu) > MU(DwD) > SE(Mug) > GS(Jug + Duality) > AE[All buffs falls here] or:
Whatever comes first > DE > SE(TA) > SF(Ninjutsu) > SE(DwD) > GS(Jug + Duality) > AE(Mug) > MU[All buffs falls here]

Jug, Duality, Mug and TA/SA animation lock are so short you can actually wind them in just like Mudras.

You actually have time to wind in 5 GCD in between TA.
Of course you want to place your strongest weaponskills there, these are SF, MU and AE.
But these combos are for a total of 6 GCD, for this very reason it is necesary that TA happens right inbetween SE and SF.

Thank you @Arkenne i really appreciate it.

[Dante_V]

PPS is king.

As far as the potency of the opener, the dot tics arent affected DE, this is correct, but they are affected by TA, B4B, IR , Dex pot, and the initial strikes of SF and MUT are affected by DE. The total PPS from doing DE first is greater overall than by doing the dots first as you are getting more PPS from these two moves if you capture them with all the buffs vs not.

The math has been done on this more than a few times but overall the difference isnt substantial so I agree that it becomes preference at some point. I just prefer to maximize dps in any situation I can because thats just how I play.

B4B > SE (IR) > GS (XPot) > DE (Suiton) > SE (TA) > SF (Kass) > MUT (Raiton) > SE (DWID) > GS (Duality) > AE (Mug) > SE etc...

This is the highest PPS/parsing opener Ive found that doesnt push two OGCDs into a single GCD. Unfortunately due to lag and pings Im not really able to double up OGCD as it sits right now without cutting Into my next GCD.

[Elizabeth]

snip

True. That's why i've been using B4B, IR, Dex pot and then start the initial strikes.

[Arkenne]

Then we are more or less on the same plane!
Goodie to know. Too bad you can't wind Jugulate in there :/
But if your ping is too bad do you think its worth for you to use Raiton instead of Shuriken while within 3 yalms range?
I live in the 110~130 ping realm and Raiton in 3 yalms is a b!tch for my dps... have parsed myself with Shuriken alone and the difference is astonishing...

Mug + Jug is a bit tight but Jug + Dual is more viable for some reason. Been enjoying this while solo to dual my oponent and it works wonders.

[silentwindfr]

we can argue that warrior will not increase our dps, but it's a fact, any DE we don't place can be used for AE.... means a gain of 60 potency.
let's be honest one second, we are the only jobs that use 4 different combo:
- one for AE
- one for DE
- one for SF
- one for AC

with the mudra, the positional, the duration that are a mess and the mechanic of the fight it can be quite a chores to exploit perfectly the ninja, say which cycle we must use here and use it in fight are quite different.

i will say it one more time, i feel that DE must be placed behind SF that will make everything more smoother.

[softestPAWSintheEAST]

new parse video 4mins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVc1DFdo340

i feel like the most unnoticed dps increase is that your DE gets the slashing bonus of the next DE so you wanna try to get it back on right as its about to fall off, and you have to look at where you're at and your latency if you can afford a raiton or a fuma in order to make that happen.

[SkyRobo1]

new parse video 4mins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVc1DFdo340

i feel like the most unnoticed dps increase is that your DE gets the slashing bonus of the next DE so you wanna try to get it back on right as its about to fall off, and you have to look at where you're at and your latency if you can afford a raiton or a fuma in order to make that happen.

This is probably gonna sound weird since I main nin but what was the rotation I know most of the abilities used but it was going to fast I have a hard time following and putting it in categorically?