The Ninja Superthread

[Aiurily]

rather than look at dps numbers for the most rng affected class in the game as far as parses go, in 2.x i simply just got the average damage of DE, compared it to the average damage of AE and then found the dps gain/difference if i simply replaced all the DEs with AEs using the average. most of the time it was around 2%. not sure if there's a flaw with that approach, but +30 from not having eye applied seems a bit high (you'd DE like, 10 times or so in a 3m parse? 600 potency wouldn't spike your DPS up by that much in a 3m parse)

[Zamii]

rather than look at dps numbers for the most rng affected class in the game as far as parses go, in 2.x i simply just got the average damage of DE, compared it to the average damage of AE and then found the dps gain/difference if i simply replaced all the DEs with AEs using the average. most of the time it was around 2%. not sure if there's a flaw with that approach, but +30 from not having eye applied seems a bit high (you'd DE like, 10 times or so in a 3m parse? 600 potency wouldn't spike your DPS up by that much in a 3m parse)

you'de be surprised how quickly they add up, that approach for working out the dps is exactly how it should be

[Arkenne]

Damage gain by replacing DE

Well, of the 3 tanks, we know WARs are our buddies.
We give them Goads, Aggro-build on things for them so they can DPS and also can mitigate those damn healers that Medica II pre-pull, damned they be.

Least they could do is keep that Eye running for us :v
It is a notisable and immediate DPS gain as well!

If we take the NIN rotation considering MU as the break point. Chances for DE/AE/AC happens from 3 to 4 times every 30 seconds. So in 3 minutes, about 18 to 24 oportunities, from which at least 4 were AC to extend and keep Huton, and 9 to 11 were DE to keep the debuff going. We are talking of an extra 540~660 potency in the same window by replacing DE for AE.

Of course I am just theorycrafting here, in reality you will throw more than 4 ACs and 11 DEs in these 3 minutes. Tho AC will become a frigging ton much easer to wind in without the worry to mantain DE.

Now that Im at it... since in the very same 3 minutes AC can happen at least 4 times and ended up replacing AE in such oportunities, we are losing at least 120 potency in contrast to our previous rotation... but since we can now wind in a Shuriken instead of a Huton... we have a minimal gain of 720 potency, for a 600 potency in total... and even more if you can use Raiton.............

Damn D:

On paper looks sweet.

[Dante_V]

Ultimately its a dps increase but parses should be as bare as possible to allow for accurate assessment between two people or to figure out a general range of dps. Having a warrior do you debuff is in essence stacking your parse. I mean we could also add another ninja to trick attack for you so you can sneak attack instead but you see what I'm getting at. As far as a striking dummy goes once you add in another PC it's no longer your parse, it's a group effort.

As for the difference it used to be like 20 - 30 dps. I'm not sure what it is now.

[Sleigh]

Ultimately its a dps increase but parses should be as bare as possible to allow for accurate assessment between two people or to figure out a general range of dps. Having a warrior do you debuff is in essence stacking your parse. I mean we could also add another ninja to trick attack for you so you can sneak attack instead but you see what I'm getting at. As far as a striking dummy goes once you add in another PC it's no longer your parse, it's a group effort.

As for the difference it used to be like 20 - 30 dps. I'm not sure what it is now.

In this case it's one of those things where you should look at both numbers, since the "stacked" parse is going to be the norm in an 8 man scenario. Personally I'd prefer to know the WAR giving SE number more than the NIN giving DE number since it's more realistic as of right now, where most groups run a WAR.

[Lurel]

I'm beginning to grow Weary of Ninja. It feels exactly like old school feral druid to me: Dancing Edge = Mangle, Shadow Fang = Shred, Mutilate = RIP, Huiton = Savage Roar.

Juggling the debuffs, dots, and buffs while trying to fit in your nuke filler (Aolean Edge = Ferocious Bite) is exhausting. There's no breathing room, it feels like you can't make a single mistake or your damage suffers cripplingly. However unlike the Feral Druid, which was tedious enough as is, we have to weave in all these extra oGCD cooldowns and abilities (Ninjitsus, Jug, Mug, DwD, Duality, etc..)

Except as feral you had a lot of time to just sit there and auto attack while your energy pooled enough to use abilities.

[Taranok]

So, I haven't read much of the thread about E.G. the NIN's new rotation with Armor Crush, but is anyone else getting the feeling that it just doesn't fit very well with the rest of the NIN's skills? The mere existence of Armor Crush basically means that you can only use Aeolian Edge about once per minute unless you have a warrior in the group, and I don't know about you, but it feels awful not being allowed to actually use my damage combo simply because of what tank I am with.

It really feels like the devs didn't playtest armor crush, and that DE should practically be merged into a new combo (such as before Shadow Fang) instead of being a combo finisher like it is now. There's too much competition in the rotation for a third finisher and it just makes the class a bit clunkier than it needs to be. Armor Crush is nice in and of itself, but I'd like to use Aeolian Edge more often than once a minute.

[MrCookTM]

So, I haven't read much of the thread about E.G. the NIN's new rotation with Armor Crush, but is anyone else getting the feeling that it just doesn't fit very well with the rest of the NIN's skills? The mere existence of Armor Crush basically means that you can only use Aeolian Edge about once per minute unless you have a warrior in the group, and I don't know about you, but it feels awful not being allowed to actually use my damage combo simply because of what tank I am with.

It really feels like the devs didn't playtest armor crush, and that DE should practically be merged into a new combo (such as before Shadow Fang) instead of being a combo finisher like it is now. There's too much competition in the rotation for a third finisher and it just makes the class a bit clunkier than it needs to be. Armor Crush is nice in and of itself, but I'd like to use Aeolian Edge more often than once a minute.

I had the exact same feeling when I got the skill pretty new. Now that I am used to it, I actually have the feeling the rotation is even more fluid than before, not clunkier. The reason i think is that recasting huton via mudra was just some kind of a 'stopper', since it's actually not possible to do without clipping, no matter how good your latency is.

[Korashy]

They could have merged AC with DE, considering the rest of the the abilities we got kind of suck, and AC is mostly just a button for the sake of another button, when a passive triggering on DE flanking would arguably work a lot smoother.

[Arkenne]

merged AC with DE

Then it would have gone one of 2 routes:
1) DE with AC properties would end up on a never-falling-below-1-min Huton.
2) DE as an extender would end up not extending for too long so to not end up as in case 1 and at some point you'll have to recast Huton because of Class mechanics rather than player skill.