Stoneskin II

[Corfish]

Jesus, everyone is angry over a small request. Giving SCH the ability to AoE stone skin won't imbalance a damn thing. It is not uncommon to have 2 SCH, and there's easily a 50% chance of getting a SCH in 4 man content. Its literally wanted for the same reason WHM wanted it: to speed things up between pulls a little bit.

[juniglee]

Too many people missing the point of this thread.

The game isn't entirely FCoB and 4-man dungeons. Sometimes you get into DF SCoB turns, or DF EX Primals, where you have 2 Scholars. Sure you can clear them without giving prior untraited Stoneskin to the whole team. But Stoneskin II in and of itself is a QoL change. Stuff like this hardly ever "breaks" the game, nor take away from WHM's battle capabilities. Stuff like this hardly hurts anyone from having it - better to have untraited Stoneskin pre-pull, than to have nothing at all.

I also think it should not take a cross-class skill slot. I think the best way this should have been implemented is to have different behaviours inside and outside of battle - it grants Stoneskin to the entire party in one click outside of battle, but in battle, you have to pick who gets it. One quick change, not affecting traits or ability to cross-class that skill to SCH.

Also, hi Sully!

[Bebekurenai]

OP, if it's not necessary, then why are you still asking for it? Why all the fuss? Why the mentality of w/e whm gets, sch should get too?

[SulwynCaliope]

OP, if it's not necessary, then why are you still asking for it? Why all the fuss? Why the mentality of w/e whm gets, sch should get too?

Why did WHMs ask for it? Because it made their lives easier and not because they needed it. Maybe they shouldn't have made a fuss over it till SE caved? The issue is that SE gave SCHs access to Stoneskin. We use it as extra mitigation before the fight even begins. Why should SE give WHMs only an extra, non game breaking, QoL change when SCHs are using the skill in the exact same way for the exact same purpose. I don't think that SCHs should get everything a WHM gets. If I wanted WHM toys, I'd play a WHM and not SCH. What I'm asking for here is a QUALITY OF LIFE change. I don't know why some people can't understand the concept of QUALITY OF LIFE.

[Bebekurenai]

Why did WHMs ask for it? Because it made their lives easier and not because they needed it. Maybe they shouldn't have made a fuss over it till SE caved? The issue is that SE gave SCHs access to Stoneskin. We use it as extra mitigation before the fight even begins. Why should SE give WHMs only an extra, non game breaking, QoL change when SCHs are using the skill in the exact same way for the exact same purpose. I don't think that SCHs should get everything a WHM gets. If I wanted WHM toys, I'd play a WHM and not SCH. What I'm asking for here is a QUALITY OF LIFE change. I don't know why some people can't understand the concept of QUALITY OF LIFE.

Because SS is native to whm and because sch has already an aoe native skill aka succor? Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind having SS2 on both since I play both, but i see it as overpowering towards sch, when sch has aoe galvanize which when critted is pretty OP, and on top of that sch already crosses the simple SS. Convenience at pull? If you already succor the party before pull, and on top of that you would have SS2, wouldn't it make your party pretty much invincible and ready to go without even waiting? The sch would just cast his succor and SS2, call out the fairy and go afk even more and from earlier on (halfway kidding there). And with the long cast of SS2 you are forced to swift it, which with succor you would be wasting the swift.

And about the "mentality of this game is perfect as it is, stop saying its not"... The game is certainly not perfect and it won't be, you can't just please everyone, but for once, with this QoL, whm catches up a little on the healer popularity.

[ExponentialDecay]

Because SS is native to whm and because sch has already an aoe native skill aka succor? Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind having SS2 on both since I play both, but i see it as overpowering towards sch, when sch has aoe galvanize which when critted is pretty OP, and on top of that sch already crosses the simple SS. Convenience at pull? If you already succor the party before pull, and on top of that you would have SS2, wouldn't it make your party pretty much invincible and ready to go without even waiting? The sch would just cast his succor and SS2, call out the fairy and go afk even more and from earlier on (halfway kidding there). And with the long cast of SS2 you are forced to swift it, which with succor you would be wasting the swift.

And about the "mentality of this game is perfect as it is, stop saying its not"... The game is certainly not perfect and it won't be, you can't just please everyone, but for once, with this QoL, whm catches up a little on the healer popularity.

A couple problems here. SS2 doesn't work in battle so it wouldn't be overpowered for scholars at all. Succor doesn't get the same benefit from crit that Adloquium does, as the shield from succor is equal to the amount healed whether it crits or not.

It is simply something that will save 3+ seconds whenever stoneskin is applied to the party.

Funny how you managed to miss the post I made two replies before the one you quoted in regards to just that. I agree that making the change to SS soe it AoEs outside of combat is the best idea, but I don't think it's as "easy" to program as everyone thinks it is.

White mage's raise ability already works this way, albeit with a trait. Whether it's easy or not doesn't really matter.

[Ghishlain]

White mage's raise ability already works this way, albeit with a trait. Whether it's easy or not doesn't really matter.

It's probably less about the "out of combat" and more about the "Area of Effect", I feel. I know they already have "out of combat" tag based on, as you said, Raise. Is there any ability in the game that changes an ability from being single target to AoE?

[SulwynCaliope]

snip

Pretty sure you're overestimating how much succor shields for. Remember that succor shields aren't doubled when critted like Adlo shields are. They shield for the EXACT same amount that they heal for. I just succored to test values. At i116 I'm succoring for about 485 non crit and 750 critted. On most classes, it's about 10% of their HP. Also it lasts a mere 30 seconds. I'm not sure about most people, but usually my succor doesn't even last long enough to mitigate the first bit of damage the party takes because most bosses don't cast AoE damage 30 seconds into the fight. That's where SS comes in and mitigates some damage.

[Roris]

Why the mentality of "the game is perfect as it is stop saying it's not perfect, oh wait I guess now they implemented a heavily requested feature, ok now for reals it is actually perfect exactly the way it is despite not being that way before, now stop saying it's not perfect again"?. It's the same mentality that, thankfully, got ignored and still got us an AoE Stoneskin despite people saying not having one was perfectly fine and the game didn't need one.

[CrystalRainbow]

Here is why SCH doesn't get Stoneskin II, Because SCH isn't WHM. If you want Stoneskin II play WHM. Or remove SCH from the game. They are different jobs. play them differently. They need things to set themselves apart.


Original request was mine April 2014