Stoneskin II

[SulwynCaliope]

I don't think it matters either way, I think expressing anger or discontent over it is silly. I think that urging SE to "Do something about it" when there is much more that needs to be done is silly. I also think the mentality of the SCH's that are pushing really hard for it to happen is extremely silly.

Either way it goes it won't have an impact on the game, so why should resources be devoted to making it happen.

I'm calling SE out on their mishandling of this. What's wrong with that? Or should we just allow SE to implement things in a half assed manner and let it slide because "oh there's more important things to worry about." WHMs fought hard to have this QoL change and were rightly rewarded for their efforts. Why can't SCHs do the same? Because somehow us having the same thing is less worth it?

[Lavieh]

I'm calling SE out on their mishandling of this. What's wrong with that? Or should we just allow SE to implement things in a half assed manner and let it slide because "oh there's more important things to worry about." WHMs fought hard to have this QoL change and were rightly rewarded for their efforts. Why can't SCHs do the same? Because somehow us having the same thing is less worth it?

I just don't understand how SE mishandled this? Stoneskin has always been a CNJ skill, they even get a trait. SCH's just borrow it but it was never theirs. SCH's have had access to Succor since the beginning, I'm sure every WHM would like a skill like Succor, or a big shield to put on the tank like Adlo. There is a lot of QoL things that SCH has that WHM doesnt, that I'm sure every WHM would want but the fact is they are different classes with different skills. This concept is so simple and easy to understand yet you don't really seem to grasp it.

[SulwynCaliope]

snip

What you're not grasping is that the SCH skills you're talking about are NOT QoL. Quality of Life means that gameplay itself is not affected and it only adds to convenience. How does giving WHMs integral skills of the SCH arsenal not affect game balance? Or do you want versions of succor, aetherflow etc that do nothing in battle? Sure you can have them. Succor lasts 30 seconds and doesn't last long enough to shield most damage on the party so it's pretty useless as a pre shield. Aetherflow is a CORE part of the SCH design. We don't just use it for mana regen and tbh, the mana regen on it for me isn't even the main reason why I refresh it every minute. I refresh it every minute to use up stacks on sacred soil IN BATTLE etc. How would that not be balance breaking? I'm asking for a skill that lets me shave off maybe 10 SECONDS before battle on a full party. How does that even equate to what you're asking for?

Edit: Would you be happy if I said you could have a non game breaking version of any of our SCH skills if WHMs really wanted them? By non game breaking I mean, can only be used out of battle and only serves to better your life in a very small, small way.

[RaquelleAvarosa]

I'm calling SE out on their mishandling of this. What's wrong with that? Or should we just allow SE to implement things in a half assed manner and let it slide because "oh there's more important things to worry about." WHMs fought hard to have this QoL change and were rightly rewarded for their efforts. Why can't SCHs do the same? Because somehow us having the same thing is less worth it?

mis-handling? oh drama mama

SS2 is not SS1, SS2 is a WHM skill and SCHs are not WHMs oh god, just stop.

I don't know about your data center but in mine, tanks NEVER buff the party. Some probably have even forgotten that they have protect and SS cross classed. I've always buffed the party on my own because that's part of my job.

That made me facepalm because clearly you have no idea how SCHs heal. And I'm not saying that SSII isn't an extension of SS. Do you agree though that it's also a pretty useless extension of SS in battle? It's ONLY purpose is to speed up the buffing process out of battle which SCHs do partake in too.

I've just ran a DR with a tank and buffed the party, there, just disproved you.

want to speed up SS buff? get a WHM.

you know whats wrong with this thread? its that you're making it sound like SS is such an fundamental and essential component of SCHs that if SCHs do not buff SS, they're gotta get kicked from the party and they will never ever find a party because a SCH doesn't buff SS and since you're so fixated on the SS AoE buff, please, play a WHM.

Let's just be honest, you wanted the skill because of a perceived convenience, it is not essential to your job and SCHs are not gonna fade into disuse because they don't SS and parties are not gonna call a SCH out for not SS-ing, it is your own choice whether to SS in the unfortunate event that there are no WHM which I find highly unlikely in end game primals and raids.

[Roris]

Either way it goes it won't have an impact on the game, so why should resources be devoted to making it happen.

You mean the same resources that were devoted to making Stoneskin 2 happen right after it was suggested at Fanfest, especially when back when it was first suggested on the forums the same type of people had the same "it's not needed it won't have an impact stop being entitled and asking SE for things" mentality? You mean the same resources that also keep being allocated to vanity stuff free or paid and still not fixing other inherent flaws like Benediction and all HP related operations having a very noticeable delay?

[Evangela]

If it's really that great, just play WHM.

[Nyalia]

If you're buffing before a pull, SCH SS is just as good as PLD (or non-job) SS. So, if you are in 4-man content as an SCH, there's about a 50% chance that you'll have a second person in the run that can help you stoneskin. Suddenly, instead of one skill with a ~5 second cast time, two people have to cast two spells with ~2.5 second cast times each. SS2 wouldn't speed anything up in that scenario, though it does make it easier. If you had a WHM and a PLD, you still need to wait the ~10 seconds for the WHM to cast all four stoneskins before SS2 came along, slowing everyone down.

If you're doing 8-man content and do not have a WHM, that means you have 2 SCHs. Chances are, you also have 1-2 PLDs. The argument is the same as the above - it isn't really all that much faster to have a single person cast SS2 than to have 3-4 people cast 2-3 SSs each. Back before SS2, having just the WHM cast SS on everyone took a very long time, and since WHM's SS is better than others, you all want the WHM to cast it and not the PLDs or SCHs. So, everyone would have to wait for 8 spells to cast instead of 3. (assuming an average party of WHM, SCH, PLD, WAR).

So, yeah - WHMs needed SS2 more than SCHs did, just because by definition, if you're having the SCH cast SS, chances are high that more other people can also cast it than if you're having the WHM do it. Split work is less work.


Also, for those who are complaining about SS2 due to the number of skills comparison, if you check some wikis like Gamerescape, they show SCH as having 13 Job skills, where WHM only has 5 (every other class also gets 5, except Ninja which gets 6 or 15 depending on how you count). Sure, you could argue that Embrace (selene), Embrace (eos), Fey Light, Fey Illumination, Fey Covenant, Fey Glow, Whispering Dawn, and Silent Dusk shouldn't count as job skills, but they are skills you get by having the SCH job. As far as class skills, ACNs get Sic, Place, Heel, Obey, Steady, Stay, Guard, and Away. That's 7 skills over CNJ, even factoring in SS2. Sure, you can say that all 16 of these skills are really just parts of Summon and Summon II, but how can you argue that they are extensions of Summon/Summon II, but SSII isn't an extension of SS?

[Roris]

they show SCH as having 13 Job skills, where WHM only has 5 (every other class also gets 5, except Ninja which gets 6 or 15 depending on how you count)

Oh boy, well not counting the obvious pet movement abilities like you've said. Embrace is half what a Physick does and a Physick + Embrace roughly equals what a Cure 2 does. Selene buffs spellspeed and skillspeed and both can't be active at the same time, so it's a Presence of Mind and a slight Huton, and she also gets a silence I guess. Eos has increased healing so it's Divine Seal, a HoT so basically the Medica II regen without the healing part of Medica II itself, and increased magical defense for a short duration so what WHM naturally gets with their Protect trait.

So again, balance.

[Wildsprite]

Eos has increased healing so it's Divine Seal, a HoT so basically the Medica II regen without the healing part of Medica II itself

If you have her in Sic mode and you time it right she will use that HoT whenver you use Succor so it can be pretty effective

I don't think SCH needs SSII but it would be nice to have a version of our own, if they gave us something similar to Succor that lasted as long as stoneskin without the heal I would be good with that. but again not needed.

in a proper 8 man setup WHM and SCH compliment eachother. sadly I more often end up with a second SCH in the same party in LoA or ST. and more often than not the other SCH is lazy and doesn't actually know the job(often forgetting about his/her fairy) so I'm having to heal for us both. it is an easy job really but you should know it's abilities and shortcomings if you are going to play it.

personally I love both jobs. but I often have to tell people not to treat SCH like a WHM cause they go in spamming Physic and nothing else or they have Cure crossclassed......or even worse they forget their fairy....

[Reimia]

I'd happily share SS2 with Scholars..There might be a time in the future I dust off my own, and I'd hate to have to single cast SS after getting used to being lazy with it :/