Stoneskin II

[DSN]

So the fact you can heal and shield the entire raid in 1 cast taking 2.5 seconds during combat isn't enough for you? or the fact you have 2 shields? Have you ever seen Stoneskin fall off due to time not damage? A lot of encounters have raid wide damage at some point which will knock off any remaining stoneskin which cannot be recast on the entire raid with ease but you can and can drop a 2nd shield on the tank and can heal them for 25% of their damage while healing someone else and while dropping an AoE damage reducing shield around the raid .... wait your right this is totally unfair. Why are WHM's getting the shaft here?

[Riepah]

So the fact you can heal and shield the entire raid in 1 cast taking 2.5 seconds during combat isn't enough for you? or the fact you have 2 shields? Have you ever seen Stoneskin fall off due to time not damage? A lot of encounters have raid wide damage at some point which will knock off any remaining stoneskin which cannot be recast on the entire raid with ease but you can and can drop a 2nd shield on the tank and can heal them for 25% of their damage while healing someone else and while dropping an AoE damage reducing shield around the raid .... wait your right this is totally unfair. Why are WHM's getting the shaft here?

Congratulations on missing the point entirely, as many have before you. You seem to be fighting some "WHM vs SCH" war nobody else can see. Stoneskin II is nothing but convenience, it has nothing to do with power or utility.

[DSN]

Congratulations on missing the point entirely, as many have before you. You seem to be fighting some "WHM vs SCH" war nobody else can see. Stoneskin II is nothing but convenience, it has nothing to do with power or utility.

It would seem that you are all missing the point and are just on the jelly train. I get that we got something new and shiny and you did not and that sucks, however when you look at the utility of each class, how your current spells work and what Quality of Life means or the impact of giving you another shield you can cast on the entire party / raid before a pull and what that does to your initial damage mitigation numbers. While you can do this manually it does come at the cost of time so giving you the same QoL change that was given to WHM does impact your class more than just the QoL which was awarded to WHM's is what you are failing to see.

[Roris]

So the fact you can heal and shield the entire raid in 1 cast taking 2.5 seconds during combat isn't enough for you? or the fact you have 2 shields? Have you ever seen Stoneskin fall off due to time not damage? A lot of encounters have raid wide damage at some point which will knock off any remaining stoneskin which cannot be recast on the entire raid with ease but you can and can drop a 2nd shield on the tank and can heal them for 25% of their damage while healing someone else and while dropping an AoE damage reducing shield around the raid .... wait your right this is totally unfair. Why are WHM's getting the shaft here?

They aren't. Say anyone, even WAR's with Defiance but of course they're a special case, has 5000 HP.

My Succor (which is the closest analogue to Stoneskin 2 yet also SCH's only direct AoE heal that isn't a HoT thus really the closest analogue to Medica) solo right now does around 460 and almost 700 crit at i110, so that's a 460 shield, 700 if lucky. Untraited SS would shield for 500, traited shields for 900, so a WHM by himself would still shield for more regardless. Sure you can combine both as a SCH, so that would be 460 + 500 = 960, just very slightly higher than a WHM would shield by himself if you even get lucky to get the higher rolls, and 700 + 500 = 1200 if one or more party members get lucky.

Now Adlo does 900-945 and a crit does 1430 something so sure an Adlo shields more especially combined with any SS. Which isn't really on topic or relevant anyway, and also Adlo costs more to cast than a SS, Adlo can't be overridden halfway except by a higher Adlo, it only lasts 30 seconds vs 30 min which means SS should stay longer because it usually takes quite a while for AoE damage to happen in most of the game' content and Adlo-ing every party member before a fight a la Stoneskin is just a waste of time because it'll fall off by the time you're at the bottom of the list or by the time AoE damage happens, especially on 8 man parties.

Simple solution in that case would be to just round up the SS trait to 20% if you really think WHM SS needs more extra shielding I guess, honestly never understood why they just left it at 18%. Which again is just missing the point of this thread because SS2 or whatever you wanna call it is just there to save time casting SS on everyone at the start or in between pulls, that's it, that's all it is.

[DSN]

As you pointed out your various abilities and how they work do you really think adding Stoneskin II to SCH is only a QoL adjustment or is even required?

The two healers have different utilities and functions in how they work, WHM is more a pure healing class where SCH is more damage mitigation / reduction. While no one is stopping you from casting Stoneskin on your entire party or raid it comes with the cost of time. As you obviously get how these spells work and scale do the math on what your total damage mitigation would be with everything up and tell me both classes are on par.

My out of combat precast of Stoneskin II will be lost at first AoE Damage. Arguments over the time it lasts really is irrelevant as mine is cast before combat starts and relies on people to dodge properly to be up when the AoE damage occurs to be safe or take reduced damage whereas you can cast Succor as the AoE damage is being cast and cover those who lost their initial shield a few minutes into combat as you pointed out most of the AoE damage occurs in the middle of a phase or as a phase transition making your shields better for reactionary or event based damage compared to Stoneskin. While sure it is nice to be able to Stoneskin myself in town and have it last while I am running around I am also not doing anything and it really serves no purpose here as I am not taking damage and the first anything I do that requires level sync it is removed and requires being recast anyways.

[Roris]

WHM already has a skill that increases their spellspeed, so by that logic they didn't even need Stoneskin 2 either because they can just pop Presence of Mind and SS everyone fast, like they had already been doing anyway. The only way for SCH to get that increase in spellspeed is to summon Selene, losing their only HoT in combat while WHM get to keep both increased spell speed and two HoTs, or getting lucky and hoping your fairy procs the trait that gets you a 6 sec increase in spellspeed. So again WHM still has the advantage, an advantage that really isn't that big of a deal anyway because both classes are probably the most balanced, as balanced as the tanks are, as in they both complement each other really well by design.

Any way you slice it, SE messed up with their implementation of Stoneskin 2 when it could have been handled much better, there's no reason to try and make up some convoluted apologizing for it.

[Lavieh]

Any way you slice it, SE messed up with their implementation of Stoneskin 2 when it could have been handled much better, .

I just read that last sentence and it just blew my mind, WTF? How did they "Mess up" their implementation. It is a WHM skill, Stoneskin is a whm skill. It isn't a SCH skill, SCH doesn't need it - People need to get over it. SE made no mistake here nor did they not do SCH's justice. SCH's having Stoneskin II doesn't matter, doesn't make a difference nor does it make them less viable. Both healers are still balanced. This thread lacks any basis of understanding or cognitive thought, it just sounds like the whines of a select few who think that SCH should get every thing that WHM has. Groups aren't going to open up PF now and make a title "WHM ONLY FOR HEALER, DONT WANNA WAIT ON STONESKINS".

Again who the heck stoneskins the whole part as SCH anyway? I mean what fight does this even matter on?

[Seidaku]

I love how scholars want to whine that they are getting the short end of a stick. So lets redirect this animosity a bit.

Scholars get an upgrade to their skill set EVERY single time the item level goes up. Lustrate is based on total hps. Cure II, III, Medica, Medica II, etc nothing goes up like that. Our skills are locked down to our stats.

Scholars have no room to argue in any way shape or form so they should drop it and live with it imo. Hell they get to benefit from the bonus anyway since their crap stoneskin ability wont even be used if paired with a whm.

On that note I would sure love to be in a position with my whm where I had to pick and choose which cross class abilities to use since I cant have all the ones I want like some classes have. Instead we get 4 that are great and 1 slot that we fill something with but, at least in my case, have never once used for any reason whatsoever.

[SulwynCaliope]

snip

I AM not hating on WHMs at all which you seem to think I am. I have no animosity at all towards WHMs. I love my WHM partner in coil.

I will repeat myself yet again. Our in battle skills are completely IRRELEVANT to this conversation. Can we stop turning this into a WHM vs SCH whine fest because that's NOT what this convo is about. This is about a single QUALITY OF LIFE skill that no one can tell me why should be WHM only besides the fact that it makes them feel special. Can we all agree that SSII has no effect on in battle balance at all? Please?

[DoctorPepper]

I have to agree with the OP, this QoL change should be given to SCH as well. Since it's only castable outside of battle and the only time a SCH would use it is when there isn't a WHM in the party I don't see how it would hurt anybody. SCH stoneskin is still weaker due to the lack of stoneskin trait so why not improve the quality of their lives to?

Scholars get an upgrade to their skill set EVERY single time the item level goes up. Lustrate is based on total hps. Cure II, III, Medica, Medica II, etc nothing goes up like that. Our skills are locked down to our stats.

Last I checked WHM gets an ability called benediction that's a 100% heal regardless of stats but ok.. To me that means if the person you're healing has more hp then you're healing them for more. Whm also gets regen and an AoE mass heal + regen that stacks with the ST regen. Calling SCH OP in comparison to whm is silly in my opinion, the jobs are very balanced at the moment in my opinion.

This is a QoL change for healers so they don't have to single target Stoneskin everybody in the party, I would agree that SCH shouldn't get it if it were useable in battle but it's not.