Before read: This is NOT a anti-cash shop thread, it is a ANTI-P2W thread. I wouldn't mind if those vanity stuff would be untradable and people couldn't make their gil with it...
Hi dear people of the forum and also defenders of the cash shop too. I just want to leave my feedback about this 2.45 and how I think it have destroyed the many ideals of the game I had, turning it sort of one P2W but with subscription fee.... What am I talking about? I'm talking about those ''''' optional ''''' items.
Okay, so far, we know that this patch comes with... DRG buffs (Nice!) A ninja nerf (It's not so much nerf, so, nice!) A new zodiac quest (Requires you 3 star crafters? so, gil? FAIL!) and the new cute '''''' optional '''''' items such as metallic dyes and the bracelets for gold-platinum marriage (tradeable, FAIL)....
"But, Hey, this new items doesn't break the game, what are you talking about?! They are totally optional! "
NO, THEY DO BREAK IT.. Now people is basically able to, with their real money acquire items in the game, they can be legal RMT thanks to commerce with the new dyes or the marriage plans, they can win gil with that method and with that gil they can buy crafter i110 HQ stuff, almost everything for market, buy stuff needed for the new relic...
So, basically, the things that should be supreme in a game (Knowledge, Experience, Skill) and where it should never be "real money" in the equation, now it is not only there added but also it is OVER the other ones... A fresh 50 having troubles for gear up? Play RMT!... You want to be your first one of the server with Zodiac weapon? Play RMT!...
But of course, those things are optional, everything is. Why playing? It's optional.
Too sad i can't find that quoute of VejjieGirl already explaining us how his friend sold two of those stuff and geared full i110 HQ... It's a good example to add to this thread, and I'd appreciate if she adds it after reading. Trust me, it won't be the last story we will have about people using their real money for acquriing virtual goods in the game. (Added to edit that quote, thanks to Hyunckel!)
Looking forward to those who obtained-rushed their zodiac weapon this way!
--- Further edits + opinions + feedback ---
Originally Posted by
Shneibel
you seriously say the player RMT for 400k !? really !? since when 400k is game break & ruin game play and what so ever ?
edit: also about fresh 50 have hard time to get gear and need to RMT is another thing need to be correct from what you said, since when it is hard to get gear in this game ?
IF you think player sell dyes from moogle station is game break, be my guess because that is your own opinion so I will not say anything about that neither bother to discuss about that, I just want to correct the zodiac part & the fresh 50 have trouble with gear
Perhaps... I'm not good explaining myself because this is not my native language? Or are you willingly omitting information yourself? I seriously can't understand those people who defend these kind of things... I mean, there are plenty of P2W games to you to go...
Ahem, to the point... And... WHAT ABOUT... The 3 star craft stuff you have to buy for the relic? It SURELY saves you weeeks of work leveling a crafter, or making gil to pay for those... ISN'T THAT P2W?!
Originally Posted by
Mattiux
So true. At least make it untradable...
With the gil earned by the optional item you can buy a full craft i110 HQ gear, pentameld it without any pain and a new player can buy materias for the scroll step of the relic all in one day.
This actually break the game imho.
Thanks god, not everyone is blind, I was about to think that perhaps I was crazy and imagining things...
Originally Posted by
Shneibel
isn't it the same with you sell dyes get from retainer ? I don't see the different in that
edit : and I found this on the moogle station:
This item cannot be traded to other players or posted on market boards., it is basicly the same as the dyes you can get from retainer (dyes)
I seriously fail trying to understand you... Dyes shouldn't be in a shop for starter, everyone could get and dye items for you for money.... They can pay real money, get the dye, offer in PF dye items... Most of glamour items are easy to obtain-buy, then just trade, dye, trade back. Items dyed with metallic dye should be BIND, just like when you glamour-fight with them.
And it is not the same, How could be the same to go, buy with real money something, get your item in game pulled frm *** and then sell it? It's not the same than someone working hard for obtain ventures, and dealing all the time with sending the retainer to fight against RNGesus.
Originally Posted by
StrejdaTom
Originally Posted by
Shneibel
P2W define "Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items than everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
i110 pentameld, i125 relic (which would be locked behind a few million gil items for some people). Hello.
This person made it easy to you for understand-open your eyes.
Originally Posted by
StrejdaTom
For me the line is already crossed, why? Promise of Devotion is selling on my server for 19M, which is about the same amount of gil I made in about .. 7 months? This just reached definition of pay to win for me.
Dont get me wrong, I am not against cash shop. I have sleipnir and I bought platinum bonding for me and my friend. I am against cash shop affecting the game.
EDIT: I am not ready to leave this game yet, I still enjoy FFXIV alot but.. I was able to leave Lineage II when it became F2P, I was able to leave Aion, when it became F2P and I will leave FFXIV, when I will become really disgusted with the cash shop.
Feedback from another thread, it is sad. It costed me four months of having glamour wars to achieve 19m...
Originally Posted by
Vejjiegirl
Quoting this from another thread:
Originally Posted by
Vejjiegirl
Originally Posted by
Tupsi
Until those of you against it can state how the items on the cash shop are mandatory, you can't argue against it being optional. Optional means it's not mandatory.
A Friend of mine was walking around in a full Arachne Set
Arachne Robe (goes for 1mil)
Arachne Culottes Of Healing (goes for 1.4mil)
Kirimu Gloves Of Healing (goes for 800k-1mil)
Kirimu Boots Of Healing (goes for 1mil)
Platinum Circlet Of Healing (goes for about 500k->1mil)
Thats around
4700000-> 5400000 gil.
For a player that just got to level 50 it was a pretty big jump to go from i50->i110(HQ) in just a few minutes.
I asked them how they did it, guess what they did.
Bought
$40.00 Platinum Plan, and sold the
Promise of Devotion for about
5mil each.
Its not mandatory but if you have the money to spend it can get you a huge boost.
Think of it as an
"Optional" Power boost.
Originally Posted by
Hyunckel
I wanted to make a new thread myself, but I'll just add my opinion here:
I'm on my first "free" month and I'm not sure if I'll renew my sub after it has expired in 4 days... I'm not sure if you can't write on the forums once your sub is over like it is the case on the wow forums, so better voice my opinion now before in case.
- I can accept people having months or even years playing this game, and in that way accumulating an advantage of some sort: Crafting classes allowing them to play the Market Boards trader job and grinding millions over months.
- I can accept people who were Spirit Bonding for months to have lots of Materia IV for their Relic, while selling those Materia they don't want. (Once I find the time or farm Gil I'll be able to afford those)
- I can accept those veterans having their Nexus on many jobs. Having a Medium / Large House. (One day I will too, once I farm Gil LEGIT)
- I can accept seeing lots of older players having a Nexus weapon for all their Jobs (I can just use a Ramuh EX (not 100% drop), Shiva EX (100% drop + token to upgrade) or the Sold Weapon with the UAT I got from Syrcus for now)
- All that is the way (MMO) RPGs work, you spend time to earn stuff. People who spent more time automatically earned more stuff (logically)
I CAN'T ACCEPT people just using their credit card to convert $$$ into Gil and BYPASSING ALL THAT EFFORT.
THAT'S 100% PAY TO WIN.
THIS IS NOT A FREE TO PLAY GAME.
In a subscription based game, mounts, minions are kinda OK. Even though those who want them are screwed unless they pay.
Paying $$$ to get in game currency to be at an advantage over people who don't pay IS NOT OKAY
Make the Wedding Bracelets bound on receiving through Mog Post or whatever is used to receive it ingame. If you want to allow someone to offer it to someone else, make it through the Mog Station Website and have it bound on receiving for those people too.
Make the stupid one use Metallic Dyes BIND the gear they are used on to the person using the Dye !!!
There, at least that issue would be solved.
Originally Posted by
AdamFyi
You've got it backwards. Selling in-game currency for real-world money is RMT. Selling real-world money for in-game currency is not necessarily the same. Let me put it this way; RMT aims to gain real-world money. The other is spending real-world money to gain in-game currency.
SE gains real money with this. You are paying for obtaining in-game currency, but instead to one not so trustworthy entity, you pay it directly to SE, this is worse because encourages people to do it, since they can trust SE in that matter.
Seriously, I can't understand you people and the many 'arguments' you try to bring whenever they are broken by the common sense.
Basically, they're replacing the RMT for themselves. "Oh, but, shouldn't we be happy about it? It means fraudulent RMT will end, now we have legal one, SE instead!". No, we shoudln't, legal RMT is worse, people trust it, people will pay for it, people will take it and boost their gaming, it is not optional since it is there, when you see another do it you feel so shitty about it that you either quit the game or you fall in repeating that social conduct and you also legal RMT, and that's all in a basis of a P2W.
Only a 10% would risk their accounts and information to some fraudulent sellers like RMT one are, and you can't really be sure of what you do until that point. If you can trust the one who provides you that service because it is the developer of the game itself, then you can say that 10% would become a 50% or more.... And everyone wins! They win more money, those people happily do everything easy and fast as they want and... Oh, wait, we who choosed to play games were we are equal to the rest and money has nothing to be on it don't win. Where's the experience, skill, knowledge? Bah, money!
Originally Posted by
DefendPopPunk
RMT is real money trading. It requires two parties, one giving up the money and one gaining the money. It doesn't matter which side of the equation you're on, you're still engaging in RMT if you buy/sell in-game items with real world money. Obviously, opinions on this differ but the definition that was quoted from SE is pretty cut and dry.
On a side note, it's kind of funny that by SE's definition of RMT we're engaging in such behaviour when we buy from the cash shop.
Lastly, kudos to the OP, if anything for at least gathering some of the threads made on the subject into one thread. It probably won't get people to stop making new threads about it, but oh well.
Exactly this, and thanks for your support. ^^
Originally Posted by
Elazu
I fail to see the pay 2 win stuff you're talking about.
Not taking time for reading, graphical description. (Sadly, too many people like this around)
Originally Posted by
AdamFyi
snip
You're yet rounding this thread?... It seems you'll never understand just one thing, a simple, very simple and easy thing to understand.... Money.... Money...(Real money) Should not mean anything inside a game or give you things faster than anyone, it should not bypass the efforts of others in a game, because in a game what should matter only is the time you spend, the experience, the knowledge, the skill... NEVER the money, else, it is a P2W.
I think a lot of people, a lot, came to one of the remaining Subscription fee games just because that, because money should not affect our performance in the game, for that you go to a free to play (P2W) and pay the money you want for feeling superior than others or having it easier-faster. I know you perhaps come from a lot of P2W games and you don't seem to know the trouble about it, perhaps your brain accepted that in all games if Google Master comes and play he should beat us all even if he plays one minute, but it shouldn't be that way, and luckily, this game was, and maybe can still being one of those places.
Paying for looking cool? Okay, sure, I don't care about it... Having the option to pay for having in-game advantages? Come on, it throws the effors of the rest to the ground, it makes you think "HEy, why am I playing if whatever I do means nothing compared to what others can easily do by paying?... Oh, wait, I guess I'll pay too" (Yeah, that's the perfect costumer for P2W games)
Seriously, the industry of videogames is turning awful and more awful these last decade. And it is because people like you supporting and accepting it... I have even seen P2W shooters, SERIOUSLY?!... So that guy out there should have more vit or damage than me or better weapon because he paid?...Call it Pay to Win or call it I like It A lot, I don't mind, I know you like to say "It's not P2W!" Whatever it is then, MONEY should not crash your gaming performance and the way you enjoy it.
"It is not P2W, they can't clear t13 with gil"
I simply can't understand why some people says "you can't clear t13 with gil or gear, so it is not p2w" .... So?... Is it t13 everything in the game? What about the effor of people crafting those hq gear? What about the effort of the others? What about the new relic and the 3star craft stuff required? What about novus and the million gils you need for materia? Is not P2W to obtain gil from **** and use it for that ?
It is equal to let's say you can level up to level 85 in the game with real money, but "Hey, it's not P2W, you can't level from 85 to 90 with money, you have to do it yourself"
So, it is perfectly ok if one player has to level all the way to 85 while other just pays it? It is not pay to win? It doesn't allow people to bypass the efforts of others just paying with real money?
It should also be good to remember that only a 5-10% of the players do super mega raids and cool stuff.. The others still suffering if, let's say, their maximum level is 85 and now people can reach them just by paying.
Please...Read.... Feel... Think ?
Originally Posted by
Evenstar
How is that involved in our discussion?
Do not get me wrong. I am not against the cash shop, I am against P2W. No matter how you look at this this is simply P2W. Square Enix absolutely did not intend this to happen, but they should have seen it coming. It should be fixed as soon as possible before more people abuse it.
Another example is people still the materia melding part for their relic.
Player A: Spiritbonded a lot, farmed a lot of gil, paid millions of hard earned gil to get the relic quest done.
Player B: Buys a bracelet, sells it for X million, runs to the market boards, buys all the materia he needs, done.
I fail to understand how you guys fail to see how this can be game breaking.
Seriously, I am a raider, (currently on T12) and I am not against the cash shop, but that does not mean I have to be blind and a white knight.
Indeed, how many hours could it take you to spiritbond all the required materia yourself?.... How many ....hours? could it take you to buy a wristle in cash shop?
Originally Posted by
Taliph
RMT is pay to win, don't need a screenshot for that. You blame players when SE should have testers in their employ who should have foreseen this issue, especially as there are plenty of industry examples.
If you doubt that RMT isn't pay to win, simple; you cite exp pots, I say RMT can level a craft without crafting... Worse then an exp pot.
Your arguments are crap, it's been beaten to death.
That was a master reply to someone saying again that this is not P2Wish.
Originally Posted by
KIka93
Personally I don't see a problem with the cash shop. Everyone who is against it has bought something from it, don't lie, you know you have.
I bought several things with a smile on my face, they're all vanity, but I love them all the same because I like to play around. I like that we can now buy halloween gear outside of Halloween, instead of having to wait for the event to roll back through. That I am very pleased for.
If you count buying a fantasia and name change.... (I wouldn't count it). Unlike many persons I wouldn't feel good with myself if my actions would be the opposite to my words. I'm not playing in a P2W game, instead I came to experiment FFXIV: ARR because I swore to myself time ago that I'd never touch that hell again...
My principles are over my leisure. And that's what I most fear of this all. I love this game, for me it has been "The Perfect Game" this whole year. I have not bought any new game, I didn't even buy a PS4, why? I have a good PC and FFXIV... But I know myself very well, if FFXIV will become P2W, I'll leave, not without trying to make people and devs understand that it is a bad way first, of course, since, I'm not the typical person that abandons what loves so quick and in silence, I rather first try and fight for it, then when it is hopeless, and people supports it so much because I DUNNO then it is when I leave, when there's no solution anymore.
<-- We have already a reply from the devs in another thread. -->
In this case regarding to one of the most breaking P2W things of 2.45 (Added also my reply and suggestion to the trouble on that thread)
Originally Posted by
Bayohne
As you know, the promise wristlets were designed to be tradable so that one person would be able to purchase a pair of wristlets and gift one to their partner.
While the trading and selling of these items for gil is not against the terms of service, in the event this type of trend continues and topics continue to arise regarding whether or not this is considered real-money trading, we will have no choice but to change the design of this system. Therefore we would like players to stop selling and trading the bracelets for gil so that they can continue to be used for their intended purpose.
Thanks for giving us a fast and positive reply. I'll try my best for give you the unique way I thought to deal with this trouble, hope it will be helpy:
- As it is right now, one player can reveive, via mogstation that item... Instead of making it tradeable, allow an input() field for the player to choose the name of the character he wants to gift these wristlets and a prompt to confirm the character name, and also the option to check the database and send an error message such as "The character name you entered doesn't exist in that world, please be sure of check world and character name again". (If one character is able to receive items through website, why wouldn't any other be able to if we manually add it with a writing field?)
This way, item can not be tradeable in game, but can be sent via mogstation to anyone for receive it... In other words, you can decide to gift anyone with it by putting that character's name on mogstation, it is a presents system...
"But, hey, will that really stop people from selling it?"
Yes, while not entirely, it will stop 90% of they doing it. Why? A reason of trust. People won't rarely pay for it without seeing the item first in their inventory, and of course people wanting to sell it for gil would rarely buy it with real money before receiving the gil... So who will give the first part of the trade first? Mostly noone, because lack of trust... How it is right now you can simple offer it in a trade in-game, player puts gil, you put item, both accept, and it is 100% guaranteed both will receive the items... While the way I mentioned via mogstation... You can't really be sure that the person in game would give you the gil after receiving the item, or, you can't be really sure that after giving your gil that person will send you the item, only by that, people would stop doing it, people does not tend to risk with those things.
I hope it is a fair and easy solution to deal with it and end with this little chaos originated in 2.45
--- About the metallic dyes ---
The another problem of the 2.45 patch and the EASIER to solve in my opinion, just make it so after you dye any of your gear with it it binds to your character, similar to when you glamour a piece of something. Let's say, you buy a spring skirt, you glamour some gear with it, then for prevent to resell and exploit it, that item is now bound to you. Same should go with the dyes (Or aditionally, and better fix, remove them from cash shop.)
--- More solutions to eternal bond trouble ---
Just came with this one, as it is right now, it is needed that two persons have the wristlet, but one person can buy two of those so then give one to another person... Why not... Instead.,... Allow the ceremony to be done if one person have the two wristlet and thus giving it later via quest to the other one?. This totally kills 100% the RMT with this and could be more easy to programate perhaps that dealing with the php queries and databases + website.
This deserves an emergency maintenance
<-- Emergency Maintenance.... Hotfix... Issue stills -->
Seems... They are not really in a haste for solving this, isn't it?.... First it was the emergency maintentance, nothing happened... Now the quickfixes, I really hoped they'd make untradable the bracelet and give it in other methods, and bind the dyed gear (In my message above and in the main thread I explain better those easy ideas to stop with this P2W(However you want to call the concept of someone receiving advantage in game thanks to real money).
This is the latest quickfix.... One emergency maintenance and 2.45 hotfixes and nothing about this, yet... Is the priority so low? why? Are they intending to solve it some day?
--------------------------------------
FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Hot Fixes (Dec. 17, 2014)
In “The Second Coil of Bahamut”, the effect of The Echo will be increased. The Echo will be applied upon commencement of duty, and max HP/dealt damage/effect of restorative magic will be increased by 15%.
*Restarting will not increase the effect.
It will now be possible to queue solo for “The Akh Afah Amphitheatre (Extreme)” in the Duty Finder.
The following issues have been addressed.
An issue wherein the battle with Phlegethon in “The Crystal Tower: Labyrinth of the Ancients” would not progress normally under certain conditions.
An issue in the special quest “The Ties that Bind” wherein the message when obtaining the “Embrace” emote would display repeatedly.
An issue in the special quest “The Ties that Bind” wherein under certain conditions it was possible to progress the quest even without having acquired all pieces of clothing.
An issue in the Eternal Bond special quests wherein times referenced in the quest texts were displayed in Japan Standard Time (JST).
An issue wherein servers would crash under certain conditions.
An issue when using the Party Finder wherein certain conditions would cause abnormal terminations of the client.
An issue in the quest “The Past Is a Story We Never Tell” wherein incorrect messages would display during progression of the quest.
An issue wherein the quest title for “Guildmaster, Prelate, and Plot” would display in Japanese.
--------------------------------------
Direct link: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-2014%29/page5
Since 2.45 started... I have already removed 9 (deleted) from my friend list.. Okay, I know it is something you may not care, but... It's kind of sad realizing which friends left, or trying to remember who were the other (deleted), it feels a bit more... empty. Ok, now if someone took the bothering of reading entirely the main post... Do you really think the hotfixes and the emergency maintenance stuff were totally needed and had to be done faster than this?
<-- Links to more threads like this -->
Because this is not the only one, and won't be the only one, and sadly, they are not united, I'll at least make an effort to link all the other threads giving our dissatisfaction with the latest way the cash shop is making.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-draw-the-line
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...eave-this-here.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...sh-shop-please
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...icial-response.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...sh-Shop-please (closed)
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...of-Pay-to-Play
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ashshop-thread
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...onse-requested
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...elling-Gil-now
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Side-of-the-OF
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...xcited-anymore
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ash-Shop-Items
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ame-pay-to-win
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Model-Sign-up.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...d-playing-FF14
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...h-shop-2.45%29
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...p-strikes-back.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...and-answers%21 (Closed)
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-Gil-for-Cash (Closed)
(Not so similar to the ones before, this is rather the honest preocupation of a player about the direction Cash shop and development is going http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2643728
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