So the zodiac upgrades... (kind of ranty post)

[Eardstapa]

They're easy to get. Time consuming, yes. Difficult? No. Therefore, they are casual weapons.

Let's use your logic in another argument. Final coil weapons are easy to get. Difficult? Only to find a competent static. Time consuming? Sure. Therefore, they are just as casual. And if we go to the lodestone bull, remember, some of us are not fortunate enough to join statics due to work.

[Xatsh]

They're easy to get. Time consuming, yes. Difficult? No. Therefore, they are casual weapons.

Hardcore =/= Hard Content. Hardcore is a combination of difficulty and time required to get the reward. Example Relics in XI were extreme hardcore with less then 2% of the population having one... but they were faceroll easy to get in terms of content difficulty just took ages (usually 2+ yrs) and a fortune of 30+ ppls gils (200mill + gil, about 2billion in XIV value if you were to convert it).

The time constraint of the relics makes them hardcore content. It would be more difficult for a person to start a relic now then it would be for them to get a upgraded I130 weapon from final coil.

This is the problems with relics... the time required to obtain one is simply not worth the reward.

[Prototype909]

The time constraint of the relics makes them hardcore content. It would be more difficult for a person to start a relic now then it would be for them to get a upgraded I130 weapon from final coil.

This actually -is- a pretty big underlying problem that I don't think anyone really brings up. People who have started playing the game recently have basically no incentive to begin a relic because even the earlier steps (Animus, Novus in particular) require a big time and money sink. New players can save time by just getting the 1000x more easily accessible soldiery weapon ASAP and then they don't have the money to purchase the materia necessary (Even assuming it sticks the first time, which it won't).

The entire quest line is obviously catered towards players who have been keeping up to speed with the releases of the updates to it, but at the same time people who are just starting out and pursuing a relic are basically playing an extremely lengthy catch-up game. Dunno why you'd even bother with a relic in that case.

[Xine]

Personally don't see how anyone is forced to do anything. I'm with you in the fact that I don't have a static and mine disbanded before they cleared t9 (they couldn't even handle t7, I cleared t7 and t8 without them in PUGs), so I don't have AIM or Dreadwyrm weapons as an option, Zodiac/Relic is my only option if I want a better weapon. Before anyone makes a mention of Shiva EX being easier/faster, I have a Nexus with Crit/Det maxed already. But I don't see how ANY content in this game is forced on anyone, literally everything in this game, from lv1 to lv50 and beyond, is optional. You can pay for the subscription, and login, do nothing, and thats your gaming experience. No one is ever forced to do anything in this game, people need to stop thinking someone is holding a loaded gun to the back of their heads saying "do this or I'm going to pull the trigger" because this is not happening.... "Only option" does not = "Forced".

[Priya]

Relics are for non-raiders. Whether they're considered "casual" or "hardcore" is going to be in the eye of the beholder no matter how you slice it. The definition is really fluid in the FF community. Using "non-raider" offers up less points of contention while still being accurate (i.e. no consistent raiding is required to obtain a relic). On that note, if you want a raid tier weapon, then raid.

[ArkAurelius]

While I'm not as hardcore as all those raiders who can get to do FCoB on a constant basis, I prefer the Relic weapon.

And hey, if I ever get the FCoB wep/shield, least I got Excalibur and Aegis for vanity XD

[NorthernLadMSP]

Yep, in this game, it's either you are lucky to have a static doing end-game or you're filthy rich and can invest millions in a relic. The people who don't have either are SOL.

[Atomnium]

"relic is for casual players it shouldn't be there to give them a really good piece of equipment"

Wrong, relics were designed for midcore players aiming to continue they path through the last coil tier, but to me it was a design error to actually segregate them in the second place behind allagan weapons.
I would have preferred to see them mandatory to actually beat the best coil tier Boss Think about it, they are our only piece of equipment with an horizontal progression.

You're completely clueless if you think the insane amount of time, patience and Gil needed to get a Nexus is "casual."

This is true, we have reached a point where the relics are meant for a midcore playerbase that could even lead to a legendary weapon quest-line in the future.
I really hope that relics become the "ultimate holy grail" with all of the tasks you have to achieve, at a point the owner will have to defeat the strongest tasks in the game to own one (Like Killing Bahamut, 3.0 raid bosses and whatnot).

Oh and btw :

SE is trying to make some snobby hardcore peeps happy

Wrong, SE is just respecting the Final Fantasy legacy by introducing different and complex side-quests, while respecting their good and bad 2.0 ideas.

snobby hardcore peeps happy

Good Sir or Lady, I have no idea what you are talking about, uhuhuh.

[Eardstapa]

@Atom; I was actually making a joke with one of my FC buddies that this stage of relic would require you to beat Turn 1-13, no echo, in one sitting. Any wipe would reset the progress... Would be amusing, to say the least.

[Atomnium]

@Atom; I was actually making a joke with one of my FC buddies that this stage of relic would require you to beat Turn 1-13, no echo, in one sitting. Any wipe would reset the progress... Would be amusing, to say the least.

Sound HARSH! But funny too xD but hey, why not, probably a bit soonish to see this for relics though it is getting progressive with dificulty level. 3.0 Maybe.
(To be honest anything but no more ugly gils grind please, kind of lame to say the least).