So the zodiac upgrades... (kind of ranty post)

[Priya]

Relics are for non-raiders. Whether they're considered "casual" or "hardcore" is going to be in the eye of the beholder no matter how you slice it. The definition is really fluid in the FF community. Using "non-raider" offers up less points of contention while still being accurate (i.e. no consistent raiding is required to obtain a relic). On that note, if you want a raid tier weapon, then raid.

[ArkAurelius]

While I'm not as hardcore as all those raiders who can get to do FCoB on a constant basis, I prefer the Relic weapon.

And hey, if I ever get the FCoB wep/shield, least I got Excalibur and Aegis for vanity XD

[Prototype909]

This right here is the sad, unfortunate truth. Of course, I am betting someone will argue that you're gaining Poetics for running dungeons! ... Not really the same thing. XI relics were fun, despite lockouts in certain content for a while.

I dunno if I'd say they were fun (The grind was still unreal), but they were "Profitable and allowed you to pursue multiple gear milestones at once" would probably be a better phrasing imo.

[Eardstapa]

I dunno if I'd say they were fun (The grind was still unreal), but they were "Profitable and allowed you to pursue multiple gear milestones at once" would probably be a better phrasing imo.

I'd say they were fun merely due to the fact players actually wanted to work together, where as in this game it's literally... If you don't have a static, or people who want to play with you in your FC, you're quite literally, SOL. Because then the time factor soars... Where as in XI it wasn't too hard to find people, but God help you if you screwed someone over after they helped you...

[NorthernLadMSP]

Yep, in this game, it's either you are lucky to have a static doing end-game or you're filthy rich and can invest millions in a relic. The people who don't have either are SOL.

[Xatsh]

They're easy to get. Time consuming, yes. Difficult? No. Therefore, they are casual weapons.

Hardcore =/= Hard Content. Hardcore is a combination of difficulty and time required to get the reward. Example Relics in XI were extreme hardcore with less then 2% of the population having one... but they were faceroll easy to get in terms of content difficulty just took ages (usually 2+ yrs) and a fortune of 30+ ppls gils (200mill + gil, about 2billion in XIV value if you were to convert it).

The time constraint of the relics makes them hardcore content. It would be more difficult for a person to start a relic now then it would be for them to get a upgraded I130 weapon from final coil.

This is the problems with relics... the time required to obtain one is simply not worth the reward.

[Sessurea]

Why would they, if they can clear Coil they don't need to waste time pursuing Relic - that's the entire point. .

Even if your clearing coil, you got rngesus working his tricks.

I will happily use 115 shiva bow until I either get ironworks weap from coil/ct3. And really, it's not that bad to just wait for the easier options, coz let's face it, ff is like 90% mechanics, 10% dps check anyways? Relic can just.....yh.

[Prototype909]

The time constraint of the relics makes them hardcore content. It would be more difficult for a person to start a relic now then it would be for them to get a upgraded I130 weapon from final coil.

This actually -is- a pretty big underlying problem that I don't think anyone really brings up. People who have started playing the game recently have basically no incentive to begin a relic because even the earlier steps (Animus, Novus in particular) require a big time and money sink. New players can save time by just getting the 1000x more easily accessible soldiery weapon ASAP and then they don't have the money to purchase the materia necessary (Even assuming it sticks the first time, which it won't).

The entire quest line is obviously catered towards players who have been keeping up to speed with the releases of the updates to it, but at the same time people who are just starting out and pursuing a relic are basically playing an extremely lengthy catch-up game. Dunno why you'd even bother with a relic in that case.

[Atomnium]

"relic is for casual players it shouldn't be there to give them a really good piece of equipment"

Wrong, relics were designed for midcore players aiming to continue they path through the last coil tier, but to me it was a design error to actually segregate them in the second place behind allagan weapons.
I would have preferred to see them mandatory to actually beat the best coil tier Boss Think about it, they are our only piece of equipment with an horizontal progression.

You're completely clueless if you think the insane amount of time, patience and Gil needed to get a Nexus is "casual."

This is true, we have reached a point where the relics are meant for a midcore playerbase that could even lead to a legendary weapon quest-line in the future.
I really hope that relics become the "ultimate holy grail" with all of the tasks you have to achieve, at a point the owner will have to defeat the strongest tasks in the game to own one (Like Killing Bahamut, 3.0 raid bosses and whatnot).

Oh and btw :

SE is trying to make some snobby hardcore peeps happy

Wrong, SE is just respecting the Final Fantasy legacy by introducing different and complex side-quests, while respecting their good and bad 2.0 ideas.

snobby hardcore peeps happy

Good Sir or Lady, I have no idea what you are talking about, uhuhuh.

[SpecialKK]

You're completely clueless if you think the insane amount of time, patience and Gil needed to get a Nexus is "casual."

I agree. I got behind on this due to ATMA drops (I also took a break right before ATMA came out, and came back when UATs were available). At this point, I'm not even sure I want to go through with it.