Dragoon: top dps and easiest melee class by far ?

[Spartan117]

Don't mind my offensive opening sentence but seems that, there's a lot of garbage going on and on about "OH MY GAWD DRG IS NOW SO EASY TO BE AVERAGE ON, JUST HIT FROM BEHIND THE WHOLE FIGHT NO DPS LOSS, MONK QQ". BTW, a ninja has been doing that. Considering the increased popularity of WAR (WAR bring about additional mitigation and dps for tanks, another topic another day) and WAR applying slashing debuff, NIN doesn't even have a flank skill to use in their rotation removing dancing edge.

Now my question to all of you is, do you want to be average?

If yes, I won't want to see you in my FCOB static. In fact I'll just be frank I don't even want to see you in my EX primal farm parties. You're a DPS, YOU ONLY GOT ONE JOB. DO THAT JOB WELL NOT AVERAGE U IDIOT.

So now can we move on and talk about whether DRG will overtake MNK?

MNK
When DPS takes a major hit:
Not keeping GL3
When you die
When DPS takes a mediocre or minor hit:
Not hitting positionals for every skill in your 1 2 3 rotation
Not keeping 2 DoT spells up

Based on parsings, majority of MNK's damage comes from autohits (33%), snap punch, Demolish, Boot shine, True Strike. Not keeping GL3 gives you the highest DPS loss in terms of % damage dealt.

Why is not hitting positionals not a major hit many will ask. That's because for each stance, there's a FLANK AND a REAR attack option. Yes your rotation may dictate that you need to do Dragonkick or Twin Snakes at that moment, but doing their alternatives does not result in a major DPS loss if the boss's mechanic locks you in the rear position. And recovery is within 5 seconds due to your high SS, just finish up the current 1 2 3 rotation and reapply your buffs/debuffs in the next rotation. A rotation is like a guideline, it's not a hard and fast rule "ZOMG I MUST DO THIS MOVE NOW OR IMMA GONNA BECOME LOLMNK". Sorry no, it'a all reaction play according to the situation.

Whether monks do so well in certain turns and fall off in others basically depends on whether the mechanics give the monk a target to attack for the whole fight.

And TP burn is the highest amongst all 3 classes, my MNK burns out 4 mins 25 seconds without goad or paeon on perfect invigorates.


DRG
When DPS takes a major hit:
Not hitting HT properly No longer
Not hitting ID properly
When you die
When DPS takes a mediocre or minor hit:
When you miss HT's Flank Bonus
When you miss CT's Back Bonus [NEW]

So they took away one of the nasty positional requirements away this patch. This matches MNK's sole major requirement to keep GL stacks up. Fair enough? Seems fair to me.

If anything, this patch actually made DRG less mobile than ever. We used to be stuck at the start of each rotation where we have to Flank, followed quickly by Rear or else we're majorly screwed. Now, it's not a must to get that Flank but it's important to get that Rear cause you need it to proc disembowel.

But guess what, to min max now, you have to Flank, followed quickly by Rear, one extra skill for you to dodge any rear aoes that may come out, followed by Rear again. Previously after we've hit the HT and ID, we're free to roam which ever side of the boss we want until the next HT. That is not even considering jumps, which means for DRG, you are more often jammed locked into stationary positions because of our rotation, which means if the boss does not line up properly for you, best of luck and take that DPS hit.

And where are people QQing about the DRG potency increase when MNK has a 5% + 27% + 5% damage buff whereas we're only still stuck at 15%.

if anything this patch made DRG more DRG like and away from the others. MNK has always been a fluid style fighter constantly moving around. DRG should always be the big hitters and to get that big stick in you need to stay still to build strength up for big hits in between the average hits.

as for NINs, meh, they will survive with the TP cost increase, but i sure hate to see the dmg nerf on kisses that i feel is unwarranted.

[Blueskyy]

I think DRG is in a good position now considering they have no raid utility. You guys keep talking about who is more difficult who is easy. I main Monk as Dps. I say Gl is not easy to manage when your target suddenly go missing. Alot of Gl stack was applied at the every last mini sec. If not it's a 27% dmg and 15% ss lost. But DRG dont have it better too. To maximize your dmg you have to weave jumps and use power surge and life surge correctly. Ninja too, their mundra is not easy to manage but not as difficult. Anyone who play a ninja long enough shouldn't mess up their mundras. Same goes to Monk.
Monk and DRG excels at different raid. Eg T8, stand still fight. Monk will win DRG DPS. mean while in T9 where there are times GL will lose without anything you can do. Losing 37% dmg (including twin snakes) is not punishing? While drg can HT and get going and do their dmg.
No melee class is easy if anyone of you is trying to maximize you DPS. You cannot just look at what the skills say and determine the complexity of the class. Also don't assume the other class is easier than your own because you "think" your class is the most difficult and have the hardest time.
Weaving Jumps while looking out for dots, HT and raid mechanics is not easy. But it's easy once you get used to it
Keeping DoTs up and moving around while looking at GL stacks while looking out for raid mechanics is not easy. But if you know how to play a monk well, you shouldn't have a problem.
Don't say DRG is more punishing crap. You lose 15% dmg without HT now. We still lose 27% dmg without GL. And Monks dont say DRG is easy, try playing DRG in high level content, maxing it's dps.
To end this note, i cannot specify more on the fact that no class is easy if you truly want the best from that class. So don't play one and say the other is easy and shit. It's like a man saying giving birth is not as painful as being kicked in the balls. Try having a baby coming out of your dicks LOL

[Spartan117]

ID no longer has a positional requirement/boost fyi. Land it anywhere you want now, it'll always do its 180 potency and combo into Dis. So basically both requirements were removed.

Alright missed that point, then I guess it's over doing it then.

But the point that the damage potency is not enough to allow DRG to overtake the advantage of % damage dealt increase still pretty much stands. They just dumbed down the class but the DPS ceiling still loses to MNK's

[Izsha]

snip

But it's not hyperbole. Missing BOTH positional bonuses every time results in a 4.57% decrease in gcd based damage. But that ignores all auto attack and instants (jumps, leg sweep, force crit etc). On my phone so I forget the exact % that those make up but just to ball park, let's say instants account for 10% and AA is 25% of total damage leaving 65% as gcd damage. That bumps the net effect of positional bonus as 2.97%. I'm guestimating the AA and instant damage so it maul be off a fraction off a % but you get the idea. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-3%. It's not hyperbole. It's math. So when I say doing the drg rotation is 98% of playing drg, I'm saying exactly what i mean. That is why this is so comical. When I say 98% it SOUNDS like an exaggeration because it's so absurd. But it's true. Everyone here is ranting about how much positionals still matter when, in point of fact, the really are completely inconsequential. The only difference of opinion is if you think 2-3% is inconsequential or not. But do not try to suggest that drgs paltry positional requirements carry anywhere near the same damaging potential to your play as mnks positionals or ninjas mudras/TA. Drg is literally the least punishing to your dps by no small margin. And that is not hyperbole.

If you disagree about drgs style or feel sure. We all got opinions. But stop pretending 5 gcds a minute losing a smidge of damage is some horrible brutally punishment. It's 2-3%.

[Dervy]

If you disagree about drgs style or feel sure. We all got opinions. But stop pretending 5 gcds a minute losing a smidge of damage is some horrible brutally punishment. It's 2-3%.

@ 363 SS (2.479 GDC), 476 CRT (17.2%, i135
Rotation time: 59.5
Total Potency: 8552
PPS: 8552/59.5 = 143.7310924369748 PPS

Missing CT Positional
(50*1.15)*1.1*(1+0.5*0.172) = 68.6894 x2 = 137.379 Potency loss
Rotation Time: 59.5
Total Potency: 8414 (rounded)
PPS: 8414/59.5 = 141.4117647058824 PPS

Missing HT positional
(70*1.15)*1.1*(1+0.5*0.172) = 96.1830986 x3 = 288.5492958 Potency loss
Rotation time: 59.5
Total Potency: 8263 (rounded)
PPS: 8263/59.5 = 138.8739495798319 PPS

Missing both Positionals
Rotation Time: 59.5
Total Potency 7837
PPS: 7837/59.5 = 131.7142857142857
143.7310924369748 / 131.7142857142857 = 1.09123389

It's a 9% PPS loss.

The PPS gain from patch 2.45 is 5%. You're doing 4% less PPS than pre-2.45 if you do not hit all positionals and to go lazy mode. Of course, this is the most extreme scenario of the #1 loldrg, but to say it doesn't matter?

You keep arguing how your 4-5% calculated damage makes no difference, when that was the exact buff us Dragoons received this patch. Whether you like it or not, hitting all your positionals MATTER.

If you're averaging 600DPS now, not hitting all/some positionals with your calculated damage (I don't know how you got this number): 27DPS loss. That matters. Anyone doing 15DPS less than they should be is of a concern for raids.

EDIT: It does translate to 3.58490% DPS loss in total, so a 21.5094 DPS loss if you're averaging 600DPS hitting all positionals on target. Either way, that's nearly our entire DPS gain from patch 2.45 gone. They still matter.

[Casper]

@ 363 SS (2.479 GDC), 476 CRT (17.2%, i135
Rotation time: 59.5
Total Potency: 8552
PPS: 8552/59.5 = 143.7310924369748 PPS

Missing CT Positional
(50*1.15)*1.1*(1+0.5*0.172) = 68.6894 x2 = 137.379 Potency loss
Rotation Time: 59.5
Total Potency: 8414 (rounded)
PPS: 8414/59.5 = 141.4117647058824 PPS

Missing HT positional
(70*1.15)*1.1*(1+0.5*0.172) = 96.1830986 x3 = 288.5492958 Potency loss
Rotation time: 59.5
Total Potency: 8263 (rounded)
PPS: 8263/59.5 = 138.8739495798319 PPS

Missing both Positionals
Rotation Time: 59.5
Total Potency 7837
PPS: 7837/59.5 = 131.7142857142857
143.7310924369748 / 131.7142857142857 = 1.09123389

It's a 9% PPS loss.

The PPS gain from patch 2.45 is 5%. You're doing 4% less PPS than pre-2.45 if you do not hit all positionals and to go lazy mode. Of course, this is the most extreme scenario of the #1 loldrg, but to say it doesn't matter?

You keep arguing how your 4-5% calculated damage makes no difference, when that was the exact buff us Dragoons received this patch. Whether you like it or not, hitting all your positionals MATTER.

If you're averaging 600DPS now, not hitting all/some positionals with your calculated damage (I don't know how you got this number): 27DPS loss. That matters. Anyone doing 15DPS less than they should be is of a concern for raids.

EDIT: It does translate to 3.58490% DPS loss in total, so a 21.5094 DPS loss if you're averaging 600DPS hitting all positionals on target. Either way, that's nearly our entire DPS gain from patch 2.45 gone. They still matter.

Exept you assume you will miss ALL your positionnal. That is as much hard work as hitting them all: you have to aim for it.

If you do it randomly then overall half your positionnal will be correct. Same if you stand still either on flank or on rear. So the dps loss is half what you computed, if you really don't give a crap. Half of 3.58490 ?

1.79245%

That translates, for 500 dps (don't know where you got 600 but if your dps are doing 600 dps you clearly don't care about 20 more or less, during progression that is unrealistic), to:

8.96225 dps

Thanks for proving our point.

[Jeckyl_Tesla]

I really don't see what the problem is. None of the DPS classes in this game are actually difficult. Their rotations are childs play compared to most DPS classes I've used in other games. The mechanics of a fight is what brings the difficulty.

Monk is bloody easy. I really don't get this whole thing that MNK is SUPER DUPER HARD because of GL and because of positionals. It's not. The positionals are only a tiny minor inconvenience which become second nature when you keep doing the rotation. I don't even think about my positionals anymore. It's become so second nature, I just do them.

The only slightly complex thing about MNK is keeping GL up. That is down to experience in a fight. Once you have done a fight enough times, you know how to keep it up and what tricks to use to keep it going.

Let's have a quick look at Monk and DRG shall we?

• Both have positionals which do more dmg when used from the right direction.
  
  Both loses its buffs (HT/Dis/DoTs, GL/DK/DoTS) when the boss is off the screen and cannot be maintained.
  
  Until this patch, when forced to fight the boss from the front, where MNK could still keep up it's buffs though do less damage, DRG's rotation simply stopped. HT could not be applied, nor could ID be used to get up DB or CT. This has been changed to be the same as MNK. Less dmg, but with the ability to keep the rotation going.

If anything, both DRG and MNK are basically the same. The only difference is MNK's GL. Which is such an easy mechanic to use and get used to, it's laughable that bad people are trying to use it as a crutch to make themselves look better.

TLDR; ALL DPS classes in this game are easy to play. MNK is over-rated in it's difficulty and people use that over-ratedness to make themselves look better. If you cannot handle the classes in this game, then I dread to see what you would be like on some other classes form other MMOs.

DRG is fine as it is. Quit your whining.

[Atreides]

You dragoons should stop comparing yourselves with Ninja, Dragoons are about as hard to play as Rogue this I agree with but Ninja is a whole other level.
Nevertheless in the end every class is easy because you get used to it.

[Jeckyl_Tesla]

You dragoons should stop comparing yourselves with Ninja, Dragoons are about as hard to play as Rogue this I agree with but Ninja is a whole other level.
Nevertheless in the end every class is easy because you get used to it.

NIN is easy as hell, it's easy mode of the easy modes.

And no, tiny inkling of "omg mudra lag wtffff" doesn't make it hard.

[dday3six]

NIN is easy as hell, it's easy mode of the easy modes.

And no, tiny inkling of "omg mudra lag wtffff" doesn't make it hard.

Ninja is not hard to play, true. However it is hard to play to full potential. For example, I've seen several Ninja miss auto-attacks cause they paused to use Ninjutsu at range.