Thread: Bring back 1.0 Notorious Monsters please.

Originally Posted by Nadrojj

Did you play 1.0 or even bother to ready his post?

1.0 rules: pops every 5-10 minutes

This lead to 0 monopolization because there the mob popped so frequently there was no market for the items, it did however give you the option for a rare item that was often better than what was currently available at that time. Jesus read before you respond.

If the NM has any form of value rather gil is involved or not, it will be exploited, and it will create toxic behavior, even at a 5-10 minute spawn. If it doesn't have value, then it is pointless content and developers should focus on content that does.

Originally Posted by BlaiseArath

Honest question, so I'll give you an honest answer.


Hunts are in a small way what NMs could be. However, they are a little different. For one, they have no drops in the sense they don't drop any unique items (Just "Currency" and Logs)... Second they aren't really a special mob amongst a group of similar mobs, more so a lore-based NM that roams the specified zone... which Isn't bad nor is it too far from an actual NM experience. I guess what its missing almost entirely is a drop pool. To give you a basic idea of what your average NM was like in the only MMO i played with NMs...

Spiny Spipi - Was a NM Crawler in a lowbie zone that spawned in place of a regular crawler every so often. So basically, You're killing Crawlers, and suddenly one with a different name appears, who is sometimes a bit bigger, a different color even, and a bit stronger. This NM dropped "Mist Silk cape", a low level cape with MND+1 (Other capes of the same level only offered DEF really), so it was a really nice cape for low level healers.

Cactrot Rapido - Was an NM Cactaur that spawned every 21~ Hours or so in Eastern(?) Altepa Desert. It ran around the map with a huge dust trail behind it faster than a Chocobo (so you can't catch it), the only way to attack it was to Link it with another cactaur. This NM had access to 10,000 Needles (very dangerous in XI when the highest HP you'd generally have is 1k~ or so)... it dropped a Bow with Regen+1 (very high utility in the old days) and an Earring that was meh but fun to have. This NM was more of a spectacle to see as a new player than anything, and was very challenging to kill (though I've experienced it done the fun/hard way with 2 RDMs and DoT killing it lol)

Guivre - This NM is a horrible person. Roamed Kuftal Tunnel in a slow pattern and scouted for people to murder. Hated it, but It was still a neat danger. It was a Wyvern NM, and Wyverns were pretty rare to see in XI, so it made new players and sometimes older ones go "Wtf is that". He hurt. But still... it was cool to see and any player, level 1 or 75, was filled with an "Oh god..." sense of dread when you saw him up. He didn't drop anything good, but the fear he induced was worthy of "Notorious".


So what i'm getting at is NMs are more or less 50% the atmosphere and 50% the drops. In XIV obviously the "Drops" would be hard to feel excited about because they can't exactly make interesting or unique items in a game thats entire itemization formula is

<insert Main Stat>
<insert VIT>
Optional:
<Insert Sub Stat 1>
Optional:
<Insert Sub Stat 2>

But It could still add the atmosphere. Killing Cactaurs for your Hunting Log and an NM spawns, Sabotender Mariachi! Drops a ROG Dagger "Bano Del Sol", Level 30, I.lv 35... Neat yeah? It doesn't have to be game breaking or High end content (though I did make suggestions in another thread on how they could do High level NM type content that wouldn't be too far from the norm of XIV)... It could just be there for the atompshere and the drops, even if they were just mid level stuff you'd throw out later. Bonus - Make them Green tier but able to be converted, a nice bonus.

PS Bano Del Sol > http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Bano_Del_Sol -- My most treasured and useless item in all of XI... I camped it with my friends for so long lol.

Man, one of the things that made me love ffxi so much was NM hunting. Playing as a THF/RNG using widescan, killing placeholders, then seeing the mob you were looking for up on widescan my heart would almost explode through my chest. Whenever I was bored with what I was currently doing I could go camp something to pass the time. Leaping Lizzy, Valkurm Emperor, Stray Mary, Mee Diggi, and I love to see you example of Spiny. No one ever bothered with spiny on my server but they sure loved mist silk capes. I funded my nin 1-75 just by camping Spiny.

Ground kings were cool, but there were so many little NM's that had items that weren't game breakingly better than what you could get for that level, but as mentioned previously Spiny's Mist Silk Cape offered one more mind, if you wanted the best, that was the best. It was nice to have different options available to you if you wanted them.


Oh yeah F Guivre. Was nice to finally get his skull to drop and think that I finally got the slip on him.

Originally Posted by Velhart

If the NM has any form of value rather gil is involved or not, it will be exploited, and it will create toxic behavior, even at a 5-10 minute spawn. If it doesn't have value, then it is pointless content and developers should focus on content that does.

You just don't get it, and I'm not going to bother explaining a simple concept again so your simple mind can understand it.

Originally Posted by Nadrojj

You just don't get it, and I'm not going to bother explaining a simple concept again so your simple mind can understand it.

Its funny how it only takes a simple minded man to find obvious flaws in the system.

Originally Posted by Atomnium

As a countermeasure to this problem, SE did found a solution that brilliantly worked for years on FFXI, the forced-spawn NMs system :
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-gear-currency.

The best exemple is probably the whole zeni notorious monster system, genius system :
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ze...rious_Monsters

Forced spawned NM's are fine. If anything I encourage it. Rather you obtain it through treasure maps or through your GC or some other unique way. My argument towards them is a 5-10 minute NM spawn system in this game.

Originally Posted by Velhart

Are you saying I haven't read it just because you disagree with me?

You didn't read it because you're arguing points that were already addressed.

Like it was mentioned before, gear doesn't have to be on par with raid gear for the High lvl NMs, meaning that it will still be used for alts, and by new lv50 players to gear up to catch up with content. Respawns are fast or forced and drop rates are high enough that there shouldn't be a million people camping it after the initial rush. Oh and the "if its not raid then its a waste" argument. Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man

Heck, I don't mind if every NM added will be force popped. That's still fine, even if it takes away the whole "WHAT THE HELL IS THAT THING THERE?!" aspect.

Originally Posted by Velhart

Its funny how it only takes a simple minded man to find obvious flaws in the system.
Forced spawned NM's are fine. If anything I encourage it. Rather you obtain it through treasure maps or through your GC or some other unique way. My argument towards them is a 5-10 minute NM spawn system in this game.

Did you play 1.0 at all? Honestly just wondering, from your response it doesn't sound like it. The items were rare/exe, which meant you couldn't trade or sell them. Yes someone could possibly try to monopolize the monsters, but again, you can engage monsters that are already being fought by someone else so I don't know how people would effectively monopolize something like that. Especially if the items dropped are rare/exe yes they could in theory stand there kill the mob over and over again but they wouldn't get the drop unless the hp'd ran back out to pop area. I think you're dreaming up something just for the sake of finding faults with it just for arguments sake. If you didn't play 1.0 then there is no way you'd be able to relate to this anyway, but alas, I just wasted time explaining a simple concept to a simple person, so now I ask myself, who's the simple one?

Originally Posted by Arkine

Heck, I don't mind if every NM added will be force popped. That's still fine, even if it takes away the whole "WHAT THE HELL IS THAT THING THERE?!" aspect.

That was half the fun, I remember the first time I ran across Steelfleece in ffxi while I was trying to run to the dunes. A gigantic ram, 1 shotted me. I was not pleased.

Originally Posted by Arkine

You didn't read it because you're arguing points that were already addressed.

Like it was mentioned before, gear doesn't have to be on par with raid gear for the High lvl NMs, meaning that it will still be used for alts, and by new lv50 players to gear up to catch up with content. Respawns are fast or forced and drop rates are high enough that there shouldn't be a million people camping it after the initial rush. Oh and the "if its not raid then its a waste" argument. Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man

Since you say it is addressed, doesn't mean it is addressed. Funny how opinions work. Believe it or not, most FFXIV players are not BiS raiders. Something like this is what most of the population would go after. It doesn't take a high end player to figure out how a bot or 3rd party app works. Also, things don't just "die down". I don't argue against NM's, I argue against how you want them. I'm 100% fine with force spawned NM's. I encourage the team to make non-raid/dungeon content. A bad idea is a bad idea however.

Originally Posted by Nadrojj

Did you play 1.0 at all? Honestly just wondering, from your response it doesn't sound like it.

I likely played a lot more of it than you did.

The items were rare/exe, which meant you couldn't trade or sell them. Yes someone could possibly try to monopolize the monsters, but again, you can engage monsters that are already being fought by someone else so I don't know how people would effectively monopolize something like that. Especially if the items dropped are rare/exe yes they could in theory stand there kill the mob over and over again but they wouldn't get the drop unless the hp'd ran back out to pop area. I think you're dreaming up something just for the sake of finding faults with it just for arguments sake. If you didn't play 1.0 then there is no way you'd be able to relate to this anyway, but alas, I just wasted time explaining a simple concept to a simple person, so now I ask myself, who's the simple one?

The reason NM's were not heavily camped in 1.xx at the beginning was because for two reasons (and yes, I was there for it). One, the game was so bad that most didn't even make it to end game levels before quitting. Two, whoever did stick with the game had the hardest time getting to 50 because of all the flaws in the EXP/SP system (lolrngexp) and about the time more people got 50, the system became irrelevant and not desired. So there was only very select few groups who were organized and several enough NM's to go hunt. People didn't even look at NM's again till they became quest requirements. Imagine if the game was actually good and there were lots of guilds hunting these, your linkshell would be losing to bots all day till you decided to use one yourself.

It matters not if the gear is rare/ex., if that rare/ex. piece holds any form of value or progression for people, it will get heavily camped and will lead to exploitation, and don't trust SE would make that rare/ex. piece 100% drop rate either. How can you not see this with the Hunts? It happened on day one and continued for quite a while. Same group of people getting ahead with the A-Ranks and they die before people could get there. Dev's had to find ways to calm people down on the hunts. It only worked to an extent. You put too much faith that the community will handle content like that responsibly, which is a silly thing to think. You guys think too hard on how something that can break so easily can be justified into the game where there are much more simpler solutions that don't require the community to go out on each other.

Now I wouldn't mind a roaming NM that you cannot kill just to bring a little danger out into the field. I remember in WoW: BC there was a giant monster that would roam Hellfire Peninsula and you definitely wanted to get out of the way when he was nearby. It would be cool if they added something like that to Heavensward area. Not looking out, it might come out of nowhere and kill you.

Originally Posted by Velhart

Since you say it is addressed, doesn't mean it is addressed.

I understand that you're arguing against all forms of time respawns, and I'm telling you right now that its not as horrifying and botterheavy as you're making out to be.

None Endgame NMs are fine as both timed/force popped. We're not going to see 15 people botting a lv34 crab, that drops lv34 loot, especially since it can't be sold or desynthed as mentioned in OP.

For semi-endgame NMs, the iLv of the loot will be lower than current tier raids enough that Raiders won't monoloplize it, and it can be low enough that it will be starter gear for endgame. Raiders will have better things to farm.

I'm talking Lv40-50 items that are ilv50-95. for the current patch.

Lets not forget that the better the loot, the harder the NM will be. Don't expect to be soloing anything that drops iLv80+.

Originally Posted by Velhart

Since you say it is addressed, doesn't mean it is addressed. Funny how opinions work. Believe it or not, most FFXIV players are not BiS raiders. Something like this is what most of the population would go after. It doesn't take a high end player to figure out how a bot or 3rd party app works. Also, things don't just "die down". I don't argue against NM's, I argue against how you want them. I'm 100% fine with force spawned NM's. I encourage the team to make non-raid/dungeon content. A bad idea is a bad idea however.



I likely played a lot more of it than you did.



The reason NM's were not heavily camped in 1.xx at the beginning was because for two reasons (and yes, I was there for it). One, the game was so bad that most didn't even make it to end game levels before quitting. Two, whoever did stick with the game had the hardest time getting to 50 because of all the flaws in the EXP/SP system (lolrngexp) and about the time more people got 50, the system became irrelevant and not desired. So there was only very select few groups who were organized and several enough NM's to go hunt. People didn't even look at NM's again till they became quest requirements. Imagine if the game was actually good and there were lots of guilds hunting these, your linkshell would be losing to bots all day till you decided to use one yourself.

It matters not if the gear is rare/ex., if that rare/ex. piece holds any form of value or progression for people, it will get heavily camped and will lead to exploitation, and don't trust SE would make that rare/ex. piece 100% drop rate either. How can you not see this with the Hunts? It happened on day one and continued for quite a while. Same group of people getting ahead with the A-Ranks and they die before people could get there. Dev's had to find ways to calm people down on the hunts. It only worked to an extent. You put too much faith that the community will handle content like that responsibly, which is a silly thing to think. You guys think too hard on how something that can break so easily can be justified into the game where there are much more simpler solutions that don't require the community to go out on each other.

Now I wouldn't mind a roaming NM that you cannot kill just to bring a little danger out into the field. I remember in WoW: BC there was a giant monster that would roam Hellfire Peninsula and you definitely wanted to get out of the way when he was nearby. It would be cool if they added something like that to Heavensward area. Not looking out, it might come out of nowhere and kill you.

I can see the point you are making. I just don't think that people would deem it worth their time to camp say a level 15 mob like jackanapes to get I think a level 30 bow, the owl bow if I'm correct. I could see level 50 end game stuff trying to be monopolized but in the end the high repop, ra/ex nature of the situation I believe would make trying to monopolize these rather pointless.

That being said, even pop nm's I'd be ok with. Something like we had in ffxi, like how in sky you had to gather pop items so you could fight the smaller gods, then take their items to pop the megaboss Kirin.