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  1. #1
    Player
    Enkidoh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Ala Mhigo
    Posts
    8,320
    Character
    Enkidoh Roux
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkine View Post
    Unique monsters that appear in the middle of group of mobs of the same family. (A big Bat in the middle of a group of bats) That we can kill to get special items of various levels from.

    1.0 rules: pops every 5-10 minutes, but won't pop if nobody kills the mobs in its location to spawn it, and it has a chance of dropping the loot.(25-100% depending)

    -----

    This would be fun to have as it would give players more ways to obtain leveling equipment and weapons. We can also have some high lvl ones with higher level items that don't compete with endgame loot. (Like lets say a Lv48 item that is iLv62) and of course glamor gear.

    Those aren't hard to implement, so it can also introduce gear to carry people over to the new set of content. (NM Goblin, needs 2-3 people to kill, drops a Lv51 iLv95 Chest maybe? green quality, can't be sold or desynthed)

    Equipment doesn't have to belong to sets, it can be just a unique item: NM A drops a helmet for WAR and nothing else, while NM B drops a Spear etc.

    This system was replaced by FATEs when XIV came out and lets face it, nobody likes those.

    I'd love to see NMs back!
    After the crap that FFXI suffered from with this, I'm going to have to say a big resounding NO. Getting good gear from NMs was nice, buuuut, the really useful ones were either dropped by a NM with such a ridiculously low spawn rate (*cough* Roc and the Healing Staff *cough cough*), the item's drop rate was stupidly low (Mee Deggi and his stupid O Kote), heavily camped by bots, RMT and legitimate players (Charbdydis and the Joyuese), or, all of the above.

    Case in point - Shikigami Weapon and the YingYang Robe, which on the old Midgardsormr server actually had a player linkshell set up exclusively to farm that one NM and they kept the NM's spawn window a closely guarded secret (they even named their ls after the NM, and boasted to anyone who would listen that they "guaranteed a YingYang Robe for all SMNs who join").

    Anyone who wasn't in that ls who tried to camp the NM themselves would usually be MPKd by the members of that ls, and the GMs were powerless to act, explaining that legally they hadn't actually done anything wrong (keeping a spawn time secret is not a ToS violation, and the other players were so slippery, the ways they did their mpking were always just one step within the ToS).

    The only time their evil monopoly was broken was when Midgardsormr was merged into Quetzalcoatl in 2010 - they tried to keep up their evil little cartel, but luckily Quetzalcoatl players didn't tolerate that kind of nonsense, and turned the tables back on them). But it's forever tainted FFXI for me and is a perfect example of why campable NMs which drop gear just doesn't work, and especially won't in FFXIV.
    (30)
    Last edited by Enkidoh; 12-07-2014 at 01:48 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Arkine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    889
    Character
    Arkine Vanrien
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkidoh View Post
    After the crap that FFXI suffered from with this, I'm going to have to say a big resounding NO.
    Yes, thats why I'm asking for FFXIV 1.0 NM system, which I explained how they worked in the OP. They pop fast enough and the drop rate is fairly high.

    These NMs can also have special abilities to make them more fun, like some would use abilities like Benediction, or have very strong attacks but hit very very slowly, or even fight in a special way like Stone Vigil HM's last boss.

    And think of the loot! Who here wouldn't want a "Python Corselete" Color is metalic Green with 2 shoulder pads, Lv46, Ilv51, MNK/NIN Drops from the NM Ajatar, a Lv40 Snake in the jungle near Wineport, to Spawn him you trade A Lava toad to a "Suspicious Bush". His poison can't be Esuna'd and it stacks up to 5. making it a tough fight. So much fun!
    (10)

  3. #3
    Player
    BlaiseArath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    452
    Character
    Blaise Destin
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkidoh View Post
    .
    As someone who hunted pretty much every NM in FFXI over their years in the game... Its not nearly as bad as you make it sound. Almost nowhere near as bad. You're describing HNMs, or NMs with 21-24 hour spawns or longer. Hes talking about 5-10minute repops. Huge difference.

    HNM is not the same as NM, and 5-10 minutes is a far shot different than XI's NMs, all of which were generally either 1 hour~+ lottery or 21-24/3-7 day and such. (Its been a long time since i got my YYrobe actually, back when it was super heavily camped too.. never felt like i regretted camping it either, it was the most deliciously rewarding experience of my Summoner life)

    Also, despite how badly some early HNMs were handled, I can't think of anyone who enjoyed FFXI for all those years would look back and say "Gee I wish FFXI never had open world NMs". A lot of people enjoyed the, even the obscure ones. I still have a f**kload of obscure NM items that had no real use. Bano Del Sol, Rain Hat, Mushroom Cap, Ascalon, are some of my most treasured and useless items... but I have plenty more, and theres no NM experience I think back on that was so awful I wish I had never done it. Even spending 7 hours camping that NM for Sirocco Kukri made it all the more sweeter when I had that weapon. Camping Mee Deggi and being outclaimed made it all the sweeter when I get the Ochimusha Kote them years later. Nothing about it I regret, and at the end of the day hunting obscure random useless NMs with my friends are some of my most charished memories of XI... and if adding them in XIV did nothing but help low level players and offer vanity gear, effectively making it optional for you... why would you care if they were added? What effect would they even have on your Dungeon runs or Coil?

    None, literally none. Also, people liked 1.0 NMs, I admit just as many likely didn't like them, but they made the open world a bit more... living and exciting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shougun View Post
    Its generally* not the same experience... Hunt = FATE ;(
    Yah, Hunts are basically... FATEs without a circle on the map. A swarm of people murdering a mob who ultimately your actions mean very little is not what NMs are about, these things also offer no rewards outside of more token currency that dungeons offer. S ranks are actually a real neat idea too, special spawn conditions, tough, etc. They'd be pretty perfect if they rewarded you with something other than... a line of text patting you on the back with a handful of tomes, Yipeee... a dungeons worth of tomes... yay. (Don't get me wrong they're rewarding in their own right, just not in the way those requesting NMs are asking for. Now if those S-Ranks all had a unique Weapon/Armor drop? They'd be XIV's HNMs already).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicracy View Post
    I'd go for a decent boost of exp instead of gear drops. one can only grind fates and dungeons so much before we lose our minds.
    Why not both ? Some low level NMs could just drop Pink Armor/Weapons instead of wholely unique items, making them a gearing alternative for some newbies. Though, perhaps people would camp them for Company seals, so maybe make the ones from NMs untradeable to GC's.
    (12)
    Last edited by BlaiseArath; 12-07-2014 at 02:42 PM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Tupsi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    3,149
    Character
    Odsarzol Que
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkidoh View Post
    After the crap that FFXI suffered from with this, I'm going to have to say a big resounding NO.
    Too bad XI used forced pops and 'instances' for majority of NMs that dropped sought after gear for over half of it's life span.

    Anyone who wasn't in that ls who tried to camp the NM themselves would usually be MPKd by the members of that ls,
    Dat 2003 experience that hasn't been true since the extremely early days of XI.

    But it's forever tainted FFXI
    Clearly since that hasn't been true for an extremely long time to the point XI handles itemization better than XIV does currently lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlaiseArath View Post
    As someone who hunted pretty much every NM in FFXI over their years in the game... Its not nearly as bad as you make it sound.
    You will learn this very quickly about this community - Most that say they played XI usually are talking about the 2003-2004/5ish era of FFXI or only played till level 10 and quit and just go off what they read on sites like Bluegartr or Zam and make everything sound far worse than it truly was. It wasn't anywhere near as bad as she made it out, the only MPK that ever happened were at Ground Kings and that was only possible in the early days since SE changed the way not only hate works, but the claiming system thus MPKing became near impossible to do in the general format.

    Heck, the 1.0 system was done using the changes they did to XI's system, which XI later did more changes as well.

    Also no, Hunts aren't the same thing - When I kill Stinging Solphie, where's my dagger? When I kill Nahn where's my elegant sword that has poison addition effect on it? When I kill Naul where's my Wyvern Perch? So on and so forth.
    (12)
    Last edited by Tupsi; 12-07-2014 at 03:16 PM.

  5. #5
    Player
    Violyre's Avatar
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    Jul 2014
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    956
    Character
    Kiriah Aishi
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkidoh View Post
    Case in point - Shikigami Weapon and the YingYang Robe, which on the old Midgardsormr server actually had a player linkshell set up exclusively to farm that one NM and they kept the NM's spawn window a closely guarded secret (they even named their ls after the NM, and boasted to anyone who would listen that they "guaranteed a YingYang Robe for all SMNs who join").
    I seem to vaguely recall this. I remember the linkshell, at least, and I seem to recall being an ass to any of my LS that joined them, generally because my LS had bragging rights over Ullikummi for awhile. XD Who were you on Midgardsormr, if you don't mind me asking? I seem to vaguely recall someone with your forum name at least. No one I talked to like ever, but still. I was Achika.
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player
    Enkidoh's Avatar
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    Dec 2012
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    Ala Mhigo
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    8,320
    Character
    Enkidoh Roux
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Violyre View Post
    I seem to vaguely recall this. I remember the linkshell, at least, and I seem to recall being an ass to any of my LS that joined them, generally because my LS had bragging rights over Ullikummi for awhile. XD Who were you on Midgardsormr, if you don't mind me asking? I seem to vaguely recall someone with your forum name at least. No one I talked to like ever, but still. I was Achika.
    That's right, my FFXI character's name is my forum handle's name (and my FFXIV's character's first name too for that matter ). I was on Midgard from the beginning of 2005 (when I first started in FFXI) til it was merged into Quetzalcoatl in 2010, which is still my FFXI server. I do seem to remember seeing a player named Achika in FFXI too - that's a really small world!

    Anyway, for those wondering I wasn't trying to have a go at the members of that ls in my previous post, as it was so long ago now it's no longer relevant. I was just trying to point out that incident on FFXI as an example of why open world NMs who drop sort after equipment is not quite the great idea everyone has made it out to be.
    (2)
    Last edited by Enkidoh; 12-08-2014 at 08:12 PM.

  7. #7
    Player
    Nadrojj's Avatar
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    Sep 2012
    Location
    Ul'dah
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    491
    Character
    Nadrojj Rolyatt
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkidoh View Post
    After the crap that FFXI suffered from with this, I'm going to have to say a big resounding NO. Getting good gear from NMs was nice, buuuut, the really useful ones were either dropped by a NM with such a ridiculously low spawn rate (*cough* Roc and the Healing Staff *cough cough*), the item's drop rate was stupidly low (Mee Deggi and his stupid O Kote), heavily camped by bots, RMT and legitimate players (Charbdydis and the Joyuese), or, all of the above.

    Case in point - Shikigami Weapon and the YingYang Robe, which on the old Midgardsormr server actually had a player linkshell set up exclusively to farm that one NM and they kept the NM's spawn window a closely guarded secret (they even named their ls after the NM, and boasted to anyone who would listen that they "guaranteed a YingYang Robe for all SMNs who join").

    Anyone who wasn't in that ls who tried to camp the NM themselves would usually be MPKd by the members of that ls, and the GMs were powerless to act, explaining that legally they hadn't actually done anything wrong (keeping a spawn time secret is not a ToS violation, and the other players were so slippery, the ways they did their mpking were always just one step within the ToS).

    The only time their evil monopoly was broken was when Midgardsormr was merged into Quetzalcoatl in 2010 - they tried to keep up their evil little cartel, but luckily Quetzalcoatl players didn't tolerate that kind of nonsense, and turned the tables back on them). But it's forever tainted FFXI for me and is a perfect example of why campable NMs which drop gear just doesn't work, and especially won't in FFXIV.
    Did you play 1.0 or even bother to ready his post?

    1.0 rules: pops every 5-10 minutes

    This lead to 0 monopolization because there the mob popped so frequently there was no market for the items, it did however give you the option for a rare item that was often better than what was currently available at that time. Jesus read before you respond.
    (1)

  8. #8
    Player
    Velhart's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
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    2,849
    Character
    Velhart Aurion
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Nadrojj View Post
    Did you play 1.0 or even bother to ready his post?

    1.0 rules: pops every 5-10 minutes

    This lead to 0 monopolization because there the mob popped so frequently there was no market for the items, it did however give you the option for a rare item that was often better than what was currently available at that time. Jesus read before you respond.
    If the NM has any form of value rather gil is involved or not, it will be exploited, and it will create toxic behavior, even at a 5-10 minute spawn. If it doesn't have value, then it is pointless content and developers should focus on content that does.
    (2)

  9. #9
    Player
    Atomnium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    331
    Character
    Flare Oskopnir
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Velhart View Post
    If the NM has any form of value rather gil is involved or not, it will be exploited, and it will create toxic behavior, even at a 5-10 minute spawn. If it doesn't have value, then it is pointless content and developers should focus on content that does.
    As a countermeasure to this problem, SE did found a solution that brilliantly worked for years on FFXI, the forced-spawn NMs system :
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-gear-currency.

    The best exemple is probably the whole zeni notorious monster system, genius system :
    http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ze...rious_Monsters
    (2)
    Last edited by Atomnium; 12-09-2014 at 02:00 AM.

  10. #10
    Player
    Velhart's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Ul'Dah
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    2,849
    Character
    Velhart Aurion
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Nadrojj View Post
    You just don't get it, and I'm not going to bother explaining a simple concept again so your simple mind can understand it.
    Its funny how it only takes a simple minded man to find obvious flaws in the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atomnium View Post
    As a countermeasure to this problem, SE did found a solution that brilliantly worked for years on FFXI, the forced-spawn NMs system :
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-gear-currency.

    The best exemple is probably the whole zeni notorious monster system, genius system :
    http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ze...rious_Monsters
    Forced spawned NM's are fine. If anything I encourage it. Rather you obtain it through treasure maps or through your GC or some other unique way. My argument towards them is a 5-10 minute NM spawn system in this game.
    (0)

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