A Use for Classes.

[Sapphic]

Alll it would do is make Jobs unwanted and trivialize content.

The end.

[Bishop81]

Alll it would do is make Jobs unwanted and trivialize content.

The end.

I see how you got such a high post count.

Sure is easy writing zero content posts that contribute nothing to the conversation.

[ChazNatlo]

As best I can tell, she was saying what I said about it leading to what I identified as industrialized laziness.

I suppose part of the issue would be optimization. People will ultimately go to whatever gets them the best results. The devs have a hard enough time balancing the jobs without almost doubling what they need to keep track of balance wise. If one class or job serves better at their designated role than it's equivalent, players and statics will turn to them. Your idea Isn't bad on it's own merits, I assume that your Proposed system would work well on it's own, without the Jobs and with bosses designed to best make the best of it. But as it stands, Either your classes would superceed the Jobs, You'bring them up to second class status, or it'd be a case of the fist option for some and the second for others

[Bishop81]

...

Anyway, in theory I don't see anything wrong with my suggestion. Of course implementation is another matter.

That said, the game will never be 100% balanced. This is reality. To demand perfect balance is to demand the impossible.

Classes right now are nigh useless. They aren't even "second class", they are "no class".

The reason I offered up "preparation" as a trade off for "not having to dodge" is because a good deal of raiders don't like to have to prep for a raid.

They don't want to stock up on potions. They don't want to craft dragon slaying weapons to kill a dragon. [1]

They just want to log in, raid, log out. FFXIV current design accommodates these types of players - ... talk about "industrialized laziness".

If they can accommodate such players, I don't see why they can't accommodate players with high ping.

[1] Which if you think about it, RPing wise it makes no sense, since in just about every fantasy story the characters prepare for big battles - heck, the preparation might even be the story.

[Yukiko]

Originally i was searching for yoshi saying that classes are ment for solo players and jobs are for group players...
However, rereading some nostalgic old postings made my feelings twist...

@Yoshi-P: When did you lose your "vision"?

Think of the satisfaction you get when taking out an enemy solo by a stroke of brilliance. Or the supreme exhilaration you feel when pwning entire hoards of foes by playing out your party role to perfection. Now, in contrast, imagine a person who, with only half his heart in the battle, struggles to dispatch the enemy. This kind of range in experience is what we’re aiming for with the reformed battle system—a system that rewards effort and innovation. Revisions to the Armoury System and battle algorithms will be spearheading the changes, along with the introduction of the job system. We’re pressing forward with changes catering to both solo and party play, so you can rest assured whatever your playing style.

FINAL FANTASY XIV Balance Reforms

In order to keep up with the times and cater to changing lifestyles, large-scale MMORPGs such as FINAL FANTASY XIV need to offer a more casual playing experience than before. Mind you, that’s not to say that the entire game should be casual. Rather, there should be elements that can be enjoyed in a lighthearted way, for example, after coming home tired from work or school, with mobile phone or refreshing beverage in hand. To elaborate, content that can be enjoyed with little fuss, that doesn’t demand large time investments—up to an hour, say—or require a party to be formed.

But come weekend, players have the choice of undertaking more elaborate adventuring, forming parties with linkshell members and/or likeminded adventurers to accomplish mutual goals. Light parties can exploit the versatility offered by classes to conduct forays into beast tribe settlements, something that a lone adventurer would find grueling. Full parties, on the other hand, can immerse themselves in fine-tuning job configuration in preparation for their bid to obtain rare items in advanced battle content. Disciples of the Hand can outfit the battle-inclined with equipment boasting the requested attributes. And last but not least, Disciples of the Land can set about gathering ingredients based on current class and materia crafting demands.

We still have some ways to go, but FINAL FANTASY XIV will gradually shift from being a grind-centric game to one that offers enjoyment for all playing styles and circumstances with its ever-expanding variety of content.

Providing Additional Paths for Player Progression

There's one key problem with the encounters available in 2.0: the limited number of options leads to linear progression for battle classes, and essentially leaves crafters and gathers by the wayside.

To be more specific, players are being pressured to join a party to play through a limited selection of instances for tomestones; there are few, if any, options for those who wish to collect them leisurely, efficiently, or even alone. Patch 2.1 will serve as a means to resolve this problem, giving players many more options to collect tomestones and play as they see fit.

There is a lot more and i would say that they are further away from the "vision" than ever before!
What happened with all the stuff Yoshi promised back in 1.xx?
Well, just my opinion, but after rereading that (not only those 3 above) i lost a tear of crushed hope...

[Sapphic]

I see how you got such a high post count.

Sure is easy writing zero content posts that contribute nothing to the conversation.

I summed up in one sentance something you blindly ignore.

Anyway, in theory I don't see anything wrong with my suggestion. Of course implementation is another matter.

A DPS that can have 100% uptime on boss. Why would you take a job that has disconnects from avoiding mechanics?

Why take 2 tanks jobs to coil who have to handle mechanics and tank swap when you can take 1 class who is able to ignore mechanics?

There would be ZERO reason to take Jobs if your idea was implemented and due to being able to ignore mechanics, would trivialiaze every fight and content designers may as well make them a basic tank and spank with no mechanics which would be the only way to make Jobs worth a damn afterwards.

Other posters have pointed out various reasons why your idea is bad, yet you have no real counter except, "I think it would work". Protip: Theres a reason why it's never been done like that, it wont work.

[ChazNatlo]

Still don't think it would work in FF XIV, perhaps a different game designed from the ground up to cater to it, but I think after reading his explainations, ignore might be a poor choice of words on his part. rarher he should be saying "interact with the mechanics in a different way than dodging them. And he did conceed that in his proposed system, mechanics that aren't blink and you miss it would opperate the same way, Ifirit's nails, for example, and I'd argue the case for the duck and cover mechanics as well, like King Behemoth's fight where you need to hide behind the meteors, You're given plenty of warning there. Course, I'd rather not put words in his mouth, so feel free to correct me on that.

[Bishop81]

...

"interact with the mechanics in a different way than dodging them" is correct. You interact with them the "old way" via skill use (either pre-mechanic or post-mechanic[1]) and proper gear.

"Duck and cover" is doable 95% of the time for me. Most of the time there is enough leeway even for high ping players like myself. The one in Snowcloak though ... 50/50. Lunar Cry casts so fast!

All in all, if you are going to challenge players with "dodge this" type mechanics that require players react in a split second, it would be much appreciated if you gave an alternative way to deal with that mechanic for high ping players that simply can't react fast enough.

My solution was to use the "flexibility" of Classes and extend it further to provide the said "alternative way". To prevent complaints from Job users (apparently I have failed LOL), I figured extra preparation for Classes would be a good trade-off, in addition, to providing gameplay - effectively some of the in-combat gameplay is shifted to the preparation phase; like in old school RPGs that don't rely on reaction time.

[1] Many, many ways to do this,

• a passive immunity to the attack but you will get a debuff if hit that you will have to deal with post-attack
• a long duration stackable shield that blocks the attack, but you have to maintain it - you choice when you want to refresh it; you can risk it and hope the boss doesn't deplete it before you get another chance or you can play it safe but waste time and resources

[Verlyn]

Do you really think ACN won't get additional tools if this is implemented?

Answering a question with a question doesn't result in an answer.

Since you didn't answer, I'll list my conclusions and bow out:
* Allowing them to bypass mechanics is a horrible idea that will result in nobody ever running jobs again.
* There is no appeal to playing classes unless time is spent making them different enough from their jobs to be worth checking out.
* Likewise, there isn't a point to spending time developing classes when Yoshi-P can add more--and better--job options to the game.
* You're addressing a legitimate problem (high ping raiding) with a 'throw out the baby with the bathwater' solution (remove the dodging) when what really needs to be addressed is the core netcode.
* This will not add horizontal progression. You're grinding to acquire abilities and consumables (ergo, boosted stats or more skill options). That's as vertical as it gets.