NTO - New Tank Order ... And our manifesto.

[Zorya]

Long story short:
- had a bad dungeon run with a tank he was rude
- refused to mark any mobs for priority simply because that was not his job although people were clearly not attacking the same targets
- prioritized writing rude responses to tanking so we died a few times because of that, and so on.

I know some of you will say marking is not important anymore but when I tank and see people don't quite know what to target I at least put a [1] marker on what I want dead first. And I find it useful to teach new players what to attack first without writing everything in chat.

And as a main tank that always tries to go above and beyond for my party I felt sad.
So I present to you, New Tank Order and it's manifesto: (suggestions to add to the list or change it are welcome):

http://matjazvn.wix.com/wearetanks

There's a form on the page if you want to be listed as a supporter.

[Alistaire]

I'd love to see what the "rude responses" were responses to, when marking mobs in dungeons is so ridiculously unnecessary. I'd probably have a few rude responses of my own to someone of your attitude, really sounds like you asked/insisted, maybe even repeatedly, that they mark things.

And people not attacking the same target rarely matters at all. As a good tank I'm concerned with holding hate on all targets, and that's easy enough to do that I could really care less what you attack first, and if/when I do think it'll matter, I'll follow the DPS's lead on what they're attacking, just cause.

[Vorpal_Spork]

Healer to the rescue as usual. This macro comes in very handy as a healer, but it would also have worked great for your situation. It lets you use skills without untargeting the tank. That way everyone could have just targeted the tank and their skills would hit whatever he was targeting automatically.

/macroicon "Stone II"
/ac "Stone II" <tt>
/ac "Stone II" <t>

[Nitssh]

While I think some of these should be common ground despite your chosen class. Such as; "We will not get mad at you for screwing it up by mistake." and "We will take time to explain the fights to those who are new around here."

I'm definitely behind this though!

[Dotsusama]

that entire page can be summed up as:

#notALLtanks

[Zorya]

Why jump to conclusions? And also read what I said. I don't mark everything. I mark when we have new players and as necessary. Simply putting [1] mark on something that should be killed first helps a lot when everyone is attacking it's own target.

But I get it. You're not one of us friendly and helpful tank I guess. Because as soon as it's something more than a minimum you have to do it's a chore for you and you'd rather argue than do it.
But hey, no problem. This is not to convince anyone that this is the right way, it's rather to inspire the current tanks and new ones to stay friendly and helpful. 99% of gaming communities are downright toxic. Does that mean we must be a part of it? I say no.

[Wakajinn]

Personally marking is not necessary. I run either raids or expert DF on a Japanese server so more often than not i can barely communicate with whoever i'm tanking for, so its best for me just to hold hate on everything and if i lose something i'll pick it up.
Even for newbies (unless you doing SM Sastasha with a first timer) marking is not necessary, its a convenience and that's about the end of it. Feel free to attack what ever target you want if the tank doesn't mark them up, it usually means they're pretty confident in their own skills to keep aggro.

[PWilson]

I don't understand the purpose of this. Are you going to beat a rude tank over the head with your link? If the tank's being a jerk, why would they even click your link? Do you feel the need to commit a handle to a website in order to ensure you're not a jerk, yourself?
I really don't get it, sorry.

And marking mobs is unnecessary for the most part. At one point, I was with some players who were avid fans of tanks marking, but as a tank, I couldn't see the sense.
I do mark some mobs. The golem part in Qarn, the mages in the 'boss' battles in Tam-Tara, the morphing Priests -> Dove Aevis in Snowcloak... I think that's about it. Oh, boss takedown order in Haukke Manor normal. There might be a couple I'm missing but... that's all that really needs to be marked, just a handful of things.

[GeekMatt]

I appreciate your take on tanking, Zorya. I myself run a newbie-FC and know exactly how to help them because it's what I'm doing most days from storymodes to extremes, and because I remember being new. Some groups benefit from the clear marking, and when it's obvious that marking would clarify confusion or hesitation on the DPS's part, and/or help the new healer that's struggling (single mobs dying faster = less damage on tank) on one of those notoriously difficult rooms where mobs can't be separated, if the tank doesn't mark then I assume it's because he's unable to mark, or unable to recognize the issue in the group.When I first hit 50 and struggled with aggro in WP against these super DRGs doing single target damage with their impressive Relic weapons, and amazing BLMs with their god-like Zeniths doing AoE both at the same time, it became apparent that I needed to communicate well, which included marks and my run went more smoothly (other than the Tomberry King always having me dead by the end of the fight). Once I got some Darklight and Ifrit sword I started doing WP with "I'll be marking only for your convenience, burn however you feel is best". I did this primarily because I didn't know how healing or DPSing worked, and I wanted to cater to pros and newbies alike. Now that I know the three roles well, I know how to support them.

I will say though that I can't tell if maybe you were offering advice to that tank, or trying to dictate how he does things, but I get the impression your intensions were in the right place either way, and he was obv. a jerk for his responses. I can wipe 976783478655 times on a run I consider "easy", and it may be frustrating but it's only a bad run when someone's got a poor attitude, complaining, blaming and/or rage quitting.

And just for clarification the bold print was a remark at the tanks who posted here not knowing the value behind marks, and choosing to respond negatively. I personally don't see the benefit of the manifesto, but he's obviously trying to encourage better(/more considerate) tanking and I'm happy to place my ign. This forum's not known for it's quality of person, Zorya, and you may have better luck somewhere like FFXIVRealm.

Happy tanking.

[NephHalp]

Marking is pointless because of the fact most dps gain damage output the more targets there are. If I'm on my bard and there are two or three mobs, I'll dot each mob then use quick nock until it's time to refresh dots/straight shot (310/330 potency for dots, plus bloodletter resets, 220-330 potency per quick nock in this case, compared to 150 from heavy shot). If there are four or more trash targets I'm going to just spam aoes. Unless if a mechanic requires burning a specific target (which is rare) then all following marks does is slow the group.

If a DPS is presented with a group of mobs and they don't pick the highest total damage option, they're doing their job wrong. If as a tank you can't hold all targets regardless of what the dps are doing, then you're doing your job wrong. Holding everything is easy.