Will you quit if this game becomes raid-centric?

[Zanfire]

@ Haji...honestly why cant there be both types of things? As long as what comes from them is not 1) super profitable or 2) way superior to other contents stuff....why the hell not?

[Azurymber]

That's an explanation why ones enjoy it (when one wins at least), not why this is an achivment. Personally I'd prefer challanges when I can use my skill rather than time and luck. For example, in the case of instanced bosses there is always a way to show off "hey, look, I'm great, I beat the boss first, barely week after it come out" without denying others the chance to enjoy content as well.

I guess my main problem is that sitting 3 hours doing nothing is not my idea of cooperation. And with a NM that only one person (grouo) can claim, I would be effectively denied part of the game's content (game I paid for and, once it's p2p, would pay monthly) becouse I would never have patiance for something like that.

winning over someone else no matter how mundane the task will feel like an achievement and be considered by others to be an achievement IN GENERAL. In general means it applies to the average population and not every individual. however, its likely if you actually claimed leaping lizzy or valk emperor in ffxi you would have felt like it was an achievement.

[Synfrag]

That's an explanation why ones enjoy it (when one wins at least), not why this is an achivment. Personally I'd prefer challanges when I can use my skill rather than time and luck. For example, in the case of instanced bosses there is always a way to show off "hey, look, I'm great, I beat the boss first, barely week after it come out" without denying others the chance to enjoy content as well.

I guess my main problem is that sitting 3 hours doing nothing is not my idea of cooperation. And with a NM that only one person (grouo) can claim, I would be effectively denied part of the game's content (game I paid for and, once it's p2p, would pay monthly) becouse I would never have patiance for something like that.

That is your perogative and I agree that there should be content everyone can enjoy. I also agree that it is not an "Achievement" or at least shouldn't be in anyone's eyes but your own. You shouldn't have to sit and wait for a spawn to get a piece of equipment that you NEED. But I should have the option to get a +1 version or a slightly better version if I want to invest the time right? Or should the additional time I can play be punished by the fact that I can do nothing more than any other player?

[Haji]

Sure! I'd be ok with that if the "Instanced" mob drops a lesser version of an item. The reason things in this world hold value is because of the efforts needed to obtain them.

My idea was somewhat diffrent: do completely separate servers, like in WoW, where on one type of server there is nearly no open-world pvp, and the other, where pvp is always on. What you propose is to have 2 diffrent type of monsters, one "bigger" one "lesser" on the same server.

The reason for 2 diffrent servers is that there are 2 diffrent kinds of people. You probably would call them "hardcore" and "casual" I call them "competitive" and "cooperative". For me, it seems that people like you, priamrly want to compete, not in direct pvp, but in a kind of race. Ok, I think I can understand that. The problem is, that by doing so, you effectively deny usage of the NMs to people like me. People who just want to get a group and go do something, sometimes challanging, sometimes silly, whithout having to worry about others stealing their fun. On the other hand this is MMO, and, like all, we would like to have a clear shot at best gear.

I'll give here example from WoW. I was never in a hardcore guild (one could argue I wasn't good enough, for me it was just unwillingness to sink that much time), so I never really did the highest content and was kinda lagging behind others. On the other hand the ability to go and try any time I wanted was very important to me. There was a time, when I couldn't really get to the Lich King, but every week I tried and I had a load of fun, especially when 25 people where cooperating. In the kind of game where only one group can claim a monster I would be left with nothing to do, and would ultimately leave the game.

[Synfrag]

@ Haji...honestly why cant there be both types of things? As long as what comes from them is not 1) super profitable or 2) way superior to other contents stuff....why the hell not?

Agreed, we don't need another Kraken Club or some godly weapon or item. Simply a little better is enough for me. It would keep prices down as few people would spend 1b gil on +1 extra int. It wouldn't become required for doing basic runs like endgame XI. They could simply copy the items add a +1 and save dev time too.

[Synfrag]

My idea was somewhat diffrent: do completely separate servers, like in WoW, where on one type of server there is nearly no open-world pvp, and the other, where pvp is always on. What you propose is to have 2 diffrent type of monsters, one "bigger" one "lesser" on the same server.

Well I was thinking more one instanced and the other not but you are on the same line. I do like the idea of PvP and PvE servers but not "Instanced" servers and non. Besides it wouldn't work if transfers were allowed which is pretty crucial to an MMO.

I was just talked into joining WoW with some coworkers as FFXIV continues to evolve. I can honestly say, the only thing I like about it at all is Battlegrounds and even those are getting boring. Granted I have only made it to 55 in the week that I have been on so I don't know how endgame raiding is but I hear stories from my friends and it sounds pretty scattered in contrast to FFXI's endgame. What I mean by this is that just about any group setup with a tank and a healer can down most bosses.

WoW caters to people too much. Warping from one thing to the next and playing with people from entirely different servers destroys any and all sense of community or cooperation. The only challenges in the game now are the instances themselves as you no longer have to navigate the world. It's really sad actually.

In the one week of playing WoW I am usually at the top of the honor chart in a battleground and I'm not used to hotbar style mmos. I failed at PvP in Aion a lot of the time and wasn't some crazy HNM person in XI. I say this only to point out how diluted WoW is and how little people work to learn their class. Everything is pretty much a smash and grab. It would be a travesty to see FFXIV evolve this way. Lucky for us it's not possible to fully learn you role because SE hasn't fully learned it either lol

Edit: In summary as long as the content is challenging and people have to learn their places, use a strategy. As long as instances are unique, rewarding and challenging I have no problem with the majority of content dropping in them. If I start seeing people running every instance with a "LFG Anything 1/4 or 1/8" you can count me out.

[Haji]

Well I was thinking more one instanced and the other not but you are on the same line. I do like the idea of PvP and PvE servers but not "Instanced" servers and non. Besides it wouldn't work if transfers were allowed which is pretty crucial to an MMO.

I was thinking here about allowing people to change the realm once such a system would be up, so they can decide (once) where they want to be. I will admit however that I don't know how transfers work in FFXIV, it was a matter of no importance for me. I only know about WoW, and there you have to pay (more or less equal to monthly fee) to change the server. If you can freely hop between servers, then you're right it would not work.

As for WoW. I don't nessecerly advocate having easy bosses for FFXIV (althought it's open to discussion how easy or difficult they are in WoW). What I'm advocating is the ability for everyone to try (and yes, fail, myltiple times if need be) whenever they choose, whitout the need to compete with others.

As a side note, WoW is not what it used to be. I remember watching first onyxia kill video, when on the start the creator said that his guild (40 people) spent whole 3 days trying to bring her down. Those were the days...

Edit:

What I mean by this is that just about any group setup with a tank and a healer can down most bosses.

This can be viewed in one of 2 ways: that the game is easy or that it is well balanced. Personally, if a game was made that of 10 classes only 4 are actaully usefull, while the rest are there just to be and take place, it would seem to me that the game is inbalanced.

[Verecund]

Honest question: What is a 'raid'?

Is it one of those things where you don't have to hire a Korean bot to tag mobs all day? Because those are really fun!

[Synfrag]

This can be viewed in one of 2 ways: that the game is easy or that it is well balanced. Personally, if a game was made that of 10 classes only 4 are actaully usefull, while the rest are there just to be and take place, it would seem to me that the game is inbalanced.

For WoW it's one thing seeing as you can only have one class per character. For FFXIV it should require specific builds. At least for 2/4 or 4/8 of the members. They may not have to be certain classes or jobs but they need to fill a role of a support, DD, Healer, Tank or specialized purpose. Trust me, it sucked having to scrap my Dark Knight in order to finish Promyvion Missions but in the end it added needed complexity to the fights in order to prevent them from being tank and spanks. I still feel guilty having 2 SAMs Zerg our airship fight, I wish we had done it ourselves.

[Clydey]

Competition was the best part of FFXI endgame, in my opinion. If they remove competition, I'll have very little motivation to play. I'd take Dragon's Aery over instanced content any day of the week. I want to compete against other linkshells for claims/loot/etc. Even though many found DH challenging initially, pretty much everyone is running around with the same gear now. Even farming 5 chests in DH is becoming easy. Competition always kept me coming back in XI. Instanced content won't hold my attention for nearly as long.

Of course, that's just my view. I'm sure some hold the opposite view. I just think they should strike a balance between open world NMs and instanced NMs. It seems they are trying too hard to cater to casual players, perhaps at the expense of, for lack of a better term, 'hardcore' players.