Will you quit if this game becomes raid-centric?

[BlackHawkGS]

Not really, as was mentioned before there is the competitiveness that you don't get in a dungeon. It's a lot like PvP in a sense where your heart starts racing in anticipation of the pop and beating everyone to the claim. This is a more vital element than most people assume. Sure a lot of people don't like it and my money is on the fact that those are also the people who do not enjoy PvP combat because they are not very successful in it. For those that often win a claim or win a PvP fight there is nothing better imo than that rush.

Lets face it anything you do in repetition gets boring, but, beating other people never does because it's rarely the same thing twice. This is in large part why multi-player FPS games are the most successful genre in video games. Making the same pull on the same boss 20 times doesn't get any better or any different even if it's challenging.

Personally I would rather get that adrenaline rush from PvP and my gear from a mix of things like Instanced fights, raids and open world NMs. In the end, I want the exhilaration that I have felt only in FFXI's NM and Mission systems and Aion's PvP system. Looking at those three things their is one commonality and that is consequences for failure. With NMs it's time wasted and jealousy of the winner. For missions it was simply the time and ramifications of usually having to start over another day with a different setup. For Aion's PvP it was the loss/gain of the then oh-so-valuable AP points. FFXI & WoW PvP are a joke (So is Aion's now). If all I lose is the durability on my equipment when I die that's not much consequence and therefore lends to sloppy play style.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed but Yoshida keeps mentioning PvP which makes me happy in my pants.

sorry for the tl;drs

So, the rush here comes from who hits the monster first?

... well, I'm still not quite understanding it, lol. No offense! ^.^; Just trying to figure things out.

How are dungeons/raids the same thing twice? The FFXIV dungeon I just ran had multiple endings, different routes, multiple locations for the photocells to appear, and require you to work against the clock if you're low level and don't have the means to blow through it (it's actually multitudes more variable then other MMO dungeons I've played. That's one of the main reasons I'm supporting this developers take on them.)

Btw, let's do keep the argument civil here (this isn't directed at you as much as it is the thread as a whole.) We are all players with different playstyles. Let's respect that ^.^

My argument isn't that NM fights are dumb. I like them. I really hope they make more. But I'm still baffled on why they shouldn't be on an equal level as dungeons/raids.

[Azurymber]

Isn't grinding NM's the same deal? ... just without cutscenes and such? I guess they change locations on occasion. Locations that you've probably seen as often as the raid dungeons.

Am I not understanding this argument?

no,
Normal NMs that are time-oriented or random pop from mobs give players something to do that -takes time-
It also gives a sense of achievement when you kill and claim it.
This gives players a lot more to do in game.

HNMs are group-based so you usually get shout convos, ls convos, and often drama as well. But they help foritfy the endgame community unlike raids which separate them.
In a raid you go with a team from your ls, you enter the raid quickly, you focus on the raid. If things are timed everything is about the raid and there is little socialization. etc
With HNMs or open world gods you go to a zone with other linkshells, you compete with them but often talk in shouts or socialize with your ls in game or on voice-chat while you do it.

With raids you get people who stay in the city, warp to a raid, do the raid, warp back to main city
With open world content you have people running around zones, waiting at zone entrances (which often double and a good exp spot) etc.

Raids close the game and take out the feeling of a vast world.
Open world content spreads the population out, makes the world feel alive, and makes the world seem dynamic and active.

So no, grinding NMs is nothing like raids, because it involves competition and often social communication.
Whereas raids involve doing the same repetitive tactics over and over and over again
NOW: if they came out with randomized dungeon raids -that- might be interesting and less boring but would still mess up the open world feel

[Zanfire]

@ Haji...honestly why cant there be both types of things? As long as what comes from them is not 1) super profitable or 2) way superior to other contents stuff....why the hell not?

[Synfrag]

@ Haji...honestly why cant there be both types of things? As long as what comes from them is not 1) super profitable or 2) way superior to other contents stuff....why the hell not?

Agreed, we don't need another Kraken Club or some godly weapon or item. Simply a little better is enough for me. It would keep prices down as few people would spend 1b gil on +1 extra int. It wouldn't become required for doing basic runs like endgame XI. They could simply copy the items add a +1 and save dev time too.

[Verecund]

Honest question: What is a 'raid'?

Is it one of those things where you don't have to hire a Korean bot to tag mobs all day? Because those are really fun!

[Clydey]

Competition was the best part of FFXI endgame, in my opinion. If they remove competition, I'll have very little motivation to play. I'd take Dragon's Aery over instanced content any day of the week. I want to compete against other linkshells for claims/loot/etc. Even though many found DH challenging initially, pretty much everyone is running around with the same gear now. Even farming 5 chests in DH is becoming easy. Competition always kept me coming back in XI. Instanced content won't hold my attention for nearly as long.

Of course, that's just my view. I'm sure some hold the opposite view. I just think they should strike a balance between open world NMs and instanced NMs. It seems they are trying too hard to cater to casual players, perhaps at the expense of, for lack of a better term, 'hardcore' players.

[Onidemon]

So apparently they are going to be making most rare stuff come from raids, and are going to mess up the claim system (see http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-world-content)

I'm assuming that would mean no sky or sea like areas, no HNM dragons, no roaming nms (whats to stop me from generating mass hate and kiting it away from those fighting it to grief them). etc.

So if this game becomes heavily focused on raids and doesn't have an expansive world like FFXI had, will you still play the game?

Note: This is not a troll or doom and gloom post. FFXI's expansive open world was one of the things that set it apart from other MMOs.

Personally I'd leave for tera or a game with better raids like the new Star Wars. I love FFXIV but raiding gets boring since its just the same repetitive thing over and over and over again for months till a new one is released.

First let me start by saying that I don't know how you got the idea that raids will prevent them from adding different features or prevent them from providing u with rare drops by other means.


So you will quit this game if it becomes raid centric and go play another mmo that IS raid centric... Now days all u need to do is write that u want FFXI and all fanboys hit the like button without reading and realizing how dumb some things sound.

[Azurymber]

First let me start by saying that I don't know how you got the idea that raids will prevent them from adding different features or prevent them from providing u with rare drops by other means.


So you will quit this game if it becomes raid centric and go play another mmo that IS raid centric... Now days all u need to do is write that u want FFXI and all fanboys hit the like button without reading and realizing how dumb some things sound.

most other MMOs are raid-centric yes. And i don't really like that. But i'd rather play a raid-centric game with story-based raids that are up to par to current standards than a raid-centric game where all you do is run through a cave and kill 2 bosses. The job system won't be done for about half a year so that means they can't really create a "great" raid for at least 6 months. And from whats been released so far i don't have overly high expectations.

[Visch]

most other MMOs are raid-centric yes. And i don't really like that. But i'd rather play a raid-centric game with story-based raids that are up to par to current standards than a raid-centric game where all you do is run through a cave and kill 2 bosses. The job system won't be done for about half a year so that means they can't really create a "great" raid for at least 6 months. And from whats been released so far i don't have overly high expectations.

I love how no one from SE has said anything.

[TirionCrey]

most other MMOs are raid-centric yes. And i don't really like that. But i'd rather play a raid-centric game with story-based raids that are up to par to current standards than a raid-centric game where all you do is run through a cave and kill 2 bosses. The job system won't be done for about half a year so that means they can't really create a "great" raid for at least 6 months. And from whats been released so far i don't have overly high expectations.

Good thing you know that it won't be done for another 6 months...I guess I'm gonna ask you when patches will be ready in the future, not SE.