Nin TP Increase: Too Much?

[Alistaire]

There is no teaching people like you, get out, your posts poison the thread,

Yeah you two are like opposites, he's got a valid point but no eloquence....

[Tabmow]

My Raitons are critting for 1k at most now.down from 1400-1800,ilvl 110 Nin. not happy.

[Aiurily]

My Raitons are critting for 1k at most now.down from 1400-1800,ilvl 110 Nin. not happy.

if you hit 1800 max raiton, you'd still hit 1500 raitons after the nerf. simple math. one of your numbers is either inflated or underrepresented

probably should let nin goad themselves. would bring their goad utility back (goad self+other high tp user, delays paeon) and bring the drg vs nin for 2nd dps slot to a closer call

[Airget]

Think this is a case where there is no thinking outside the box. What causes TP to drain fast? Speed. What increases speed? Huton. SO wouldn't it be an option to say skip a Huton rotation if your TP is low, the idea for fighting should be to fight as fluid as possible.

So maybe instead of Huton, Suiton, Raiton, you might be Raiton, Raiton, Raiton, Huton. There is more than invigorate to restore TP and that's slowing down the pace of your attacks.

If anything pacing it out in a Huton combow with Suiton, and then maybe keeping Huton up til next Suiton and after that Suiton take time to restore TP and focus on using Raiton 3 times, then back to Huton/Suiton.

2.41 to 2.05 So it's pretty much about 5 extra actions in a minute, excluding jutsu just to keep it a bit simple

But if we add jutsu there if you do 3 in a minute that's 3 seconds for suiton, 2 second for Raiton leaving a .1 leeway for lag and such during input. So potentially 7-8 seconds are reduced from a 1 min window so in 52 seconds:
With Huton (2.05)=25 actions 60-50-50(20 seconds)-80(30 seconds)-60-70(18 seconds)-60-50-60-60-50-50(20 seconds)-60-70(18 seconds)-60-50-60-80(30 seconds)-60-50-60-60-50-50(20 seconds)-60- = 60/12, 50/9, 80/2, 70/2
Without Huton (2.41)=21 actions 60-50-50(20 seconds)-80(30 seconds)-60-70(18 seconds)-60-50-60-60-50-50(20 seconds)-60-70(18 seconds)-60-50-60-80(30 seconds)-60-50-60 = 60/10, 50/7, 80/2, 70/2

TP used with Huton=1470
Without Huton=1250

So there is a 220 TP difference from using and not using Huton with the above speed values, of course there isa margine for error odds are you can maybe reduce the value and remove the last 2 actions from the above and say they are more likely to be 1360 and 1140 TP spent in that time.

So quite honestly I think if one wishes to conserve TP it's more about deciding when best to use Huton and not see it as something you always need to keep up. For the times you have Huton down you can make up for it using Blood for Blood, Infernal Release, Trick attack combo with a well timed Dancing Edge when you have Huton up.

[Pluvia]

Think this is a case where there is no thinking outside the box. What causes TP to drain fast? Speed. What increases speed? Huton. SO wouldn't it be an option to say skip a Huton rotation if your TP is low, the idea for fighting should be to fight as fluid as possible.

So maybe instead of Huton, Suiton, Raiton, you might be Raiton, Raiton, Raiton, Huton. There is more than invigorate to restore TP and that's slowing down the pace of your attacks.

If anything pacing it out in a Huton combow with Suiton, and then maybe keeping Huton up til next Suiton and after that Suiton take time to restore TP and focus on using Raiton 3 times, then back to Huton/Suiton.

2.41 to 2.05 So it's pretty much about 5 extra actions in a minute, excluding jutsu just to keep it a bit simple

But if we add jutsu there if you do 3 in a minute that's 3 seconds for suiton, 2 second for Raiton leaving a .1 leeway for lag and such during input. So potentially 7-8 seconds are reduced from a 1 min window so in 52 seconds:
With Huton (2.05)=25 actions 60-50-50(20 seconds)-80(30 seconds)-60-70(18 seconds)-60-50-60-60-50-50(20 seconds)-60-70(18 seconds)-60-50-60-80(30 seconds)-60-50-60-60-50-50(20 seconds)-60- = 60/12, 50/9, 80/2, 70/2
Without Huton (2.41)=21 actions 60-50-50(20 seconds)-80(30 seconds)-60-70(18 seconds)-60-50-60-60-50-50(20 seconds)-60-70(18 seconds)-60-50-60-80(30 seconds)-60-50-60 = 60/10, 50/7, 80/2, 70/2

TP used with Huton=1470
Without Huton=1250

So there is a 220 TP difference from using and not using Huton with the above speed values, of course there isa margine for error odds are you can maybe reduce the value and remove the last 2 actions from the above and say they are more likely to be 1360 and 1140 TP spent in that time.

So quite honestly I think if one wishes to conserve TP it's more about deciding when best to use Huton and not see it as something you always need to keep up. For the times you have Huton down you can make up for it using Blood for Blood, Infernal Release, Trick attack combo with a well timed Dancing Edge when you have Huton up.

ORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR you can make the bard sing paeon

[Ressus]

Is the attack speed increase from huton affecting auto attack speed? If not it would actually be benificial to not always keep huton up if you don't have a bard to sing paeon. And that would mean Yoshi-P flat out lied as he said this change would not change our rotation.
I really don't understand why the tp increase was necessary. Not needing paeon for the group was cool. Well why should I use goad if i'm going to need paeon anyway. This made an awesome skill into a skill that is not fun to use anymore.

[RinchanNau]

Well why should I use goad if i'm going to need paeon anyway.

You should use goad because you care about raid DPS and not just your own. How is this even a question? As for whether playing paeon for just one person is worth it.. not really. Self control and proper management of TP are more beneficial to raid DPS than pampering your NIN with MP that could be used for Foe's and not lowering BRD damage by 20%.

It's the same with SMN that ask for Ballad. Unless they just died and don't have aetherflow ready to go it is not worth it. Just gotta learn to manage their MP better just like physical DPS need to learn TP management.

[Atreides]

You should use goad because you care about raid DPS and not just your own. How is this even a question? As for whether playing paeon for just one person is worth it.. not really. Self control and proper management of TP are more beneficial to raid DPS than pampering your NIN with MP that could be used for Foe's and not lowering BRD damage by 20%.

It's the same with SMN that ask for Ballad. Unless they just died and don't have aetherflow ready to go it is not worth it. Just gotta learn to manage their MP better just like physical DPS need to learn TP management.

Now care to explain how you manage TP right? I'm talking about perfect execution of Invigorate and as much uptime on the boss as possible.
You're not telling us to just suck it up and starve until Invigorate is ready, while you get goads, right? Right?!
I mean I do use goad and rotate between our BRD and MNK but when I really need TP I expect the BRD to sing.
Since I play on EU servers mudras are sluggish as hell and cut alot into my GC so I won't be running into TP problems anytime soon but I can imagine that for US and Japanese players it's a different story.

[RinchanNau]

Now care to explain how you manage TP right? I'm talking about perfect execution of Invigorate and as much uptime on the boss as possible.
You're not telling us to just suck it up and starve until Invigorate is ready, while you get goads, right? Right?!
I mean I do use goad and rotate between our BRD and MNK but when I really need TP I expect the BRD to sing.

I am talking about maximizing raid damage. NOT one person's personal damage. In a stroke your NIN's ePeen setting I would Paeon all day.

[whiskeybravo]

Is the attack speed increase from huton affecting auto attack speed? If not it would actually be benificial to not always keep huton up if you don't have a bard to sing paeon. And that would mean Yoshi-P flat out lied as he said this change would not change our rotation.
I really don't understand why the tp increase was necessary. Not needing paeon for the group was cool. Well why should I use goad if i'm going to need paeon anyway. This made an awesome skill into a skill that is not fun to use anymore.

How exactly does the slight increase in NIN tp cost eliminate the utility of Goad? /perplexed

"I'm going to run out of TP so you don't get my TP regen, now BRD lower your damage and play me Paeon" That's about the most selfish argument I've ever heard lol

"I can't cast Eye for an Eye on myself, so guess what tank you're not getting it either"