Nin TP Increase: Too Much?

[Pluvia]

Doesn't change the fact that a double NIN comp is still better than anything else. NIN will synergize with itself even better now out of the necessity for more TP. Two NIN can rotate their Goads to prevent themselves, their bard, and a tank from ever running out of TP. The new TP costs won't change that, and it won't change that a single NIN can be another NIN's Dancing Edge bitch. With the incoming buffs to Dragoon though, the extra damage they'll give bard plus their own buffed damage could be enough to choose one over a NIN, if your Bard does enough DPS.

I believe the best melee config is going to be NIN-NIN or MNK-DRG after the patch hits. Just speculation.

Naw the best melee comp will continue to be MNK-MNK.

[Sleigh]

Shurrikhan, NIN DPS isn't actually the best in the game. Monk has always beaten them. Now that we'll be losing roughly 6-9 DPS, we're going to be further outclassed by Monk, which isn't a bad thing. There has to be a highest DPS job, and Monk is just that. The thing that makes NIN so valuable is that they grant TP, and didn't really need any in return. They removed the need to play so much Paeon. They're increasing TP costs to remove that relative value, so other melees begin to look more attractive.

TP was never the reason to bring NIN. It was Trick Attack (easily making up the difference between NIN and MNK DPS) and their high DPS which was unaffected by positionals and phase changes/breaks mostly. Goad and their higher TP allowance was and still will be just a bonus for bringing NIN.

But yeah as mentioned above, MNK MNK is still going to be the best melee comp unless the DRG buffs are truly incredible.

[Craiger]

Wow, people really underestimate Trick Attack here... Who cares if MNK has slightly higher DPS, when NIN brings more overall DPS to the group.

just looking at the individual DPS is stupid really, cause a raid group doesn't care if someone has higher DPS than the other, all that matters is that group have as much DPS as possible. The NIN nerf makes this more balanced.

MNK and NIN will bring similar DPS and Utility to the group, and lets just hope DRG can follow them too...

[Krr]

Thank god those poor nins who were challenging the mnk/mnk meta got put in their place. The incredibly deep and skilled gameplay of 'make sure you keep using your GCDs as a melee DPS' is truly the most skilled play FFXIV has to offer.

By the way, Trick Attack is a 3.3% net increase in total party DPS over not having Trick Attack in the party. That assumes a perfect use case and nobody ever needing to use a DoT during it (TA is a global resist debuff that stacks with other types of resist debuffs, and does not affect damage over time skills, so your Summoners and Bards are basically SoL when you use it.)

[alsims2007]

By the way, Trick Attack is a 3.3% net increase in total party DPS over not having Trick Attack in the party. That assumes a perfect use case and nobody ever needing to use a DoT during it (TA is a global resist debuff that stacks with other types of resist debuffs, and does not affect damage over time skills, so your Summoners and Bards are basically SoL when you use it.)

A global resist debuff would affect dots. The reason physical dots arent affected by the blunt/slashing/piercing dubuffs is because they are not classified as such once applied to the target but foe's req does affect a smn dots. For a monk it's like an extra 10secs of blood 4 blood without the damage penalty. Where trick attack is wasted is when all dots are already applied. Trick attack isnt good enough that someone would clip their dots and I believe all dots last longer than 10 seconds

[Alistaire]

Thank god those poor nins who were challenging the mnk/mnk meta got put in their place. The incredibly deep and skilled gameplay of 'make sure you keep using your GCDs as a melee DPS' is truly the most skilled play FFXIV has to offer.

By the way, Trick Attack is a 3.3% net increase in total party DPS over not having Trick Attack in the party. That assumes a perfect use case and nobody ever needing to use a DoT during it (TA is a global resist debuff that stacks with other types of resist debuffs, and does not affect damage over time skills, so your Summoners and Bards are basically SoL when you use it.)

That is entirely incorrect. Go test on a dummy, if your dot ticks normally at say 50, then if it's put up while trick attack is on it'll be 55, including that dot's duration after TA falls off.

It's wonderful how many people post #s here (and elsewhere) and thinks that makes their points infallible. If that were the case, nobody would ever fail a math test.

[Pluvia]

Wow, people really underestimate Trick Attack here... Who cares if MNK has slightly higher DPS, when NIN brings more overall DPS to the group.

just looking at the individual DPS is stupid really, cause a raid group doesn't care if someone has higher DPS than the other, all that matters is that group have as much DPS as possible. The NIN nerf makes this more balanced.

MNK and NIN will bring similar DPS and Utility to the group, and lets just hope DRG can follow them too...

Let me give you a scenario and hell it doesn't even work out like this lets say your raid does 2400 dps total before trick attack after trick attack its 2438.4 roughly and that's if everything ends up perfect which it never does there are times when people aren't hitting the same target, bards singing so they're doing less damage during trick attack and many other variable you have to look at during the fight people vastly Overate trick attack its not as great as people think nothing will change monk still does the most damage and hell even better when there is double monk it will not change unless for some god knows reason SE buffs dragoon past monk which is like asking to win the lottery since they for some reason love to believe that monk is SUPER Hard compared to the other melees which they're not.

So as of now and probably till expansion MNK/MNK. Honestly I don't even get why they did some of these changing it barely changes the single target damage was more of a nerf to AoE and Goad. TP wise I understand and it may be too much we don't know for sure time will tell after the patch when we can see the balance between the 3 melees without any of them getting goad because honestly there isn't any reason to use goad unless you're in these 3 situations 1. someone died and needs tp. 2. warrior mass pulling in dungeons. 3. bard is having to multi dot.

[Nexxus]

Once you know how to play a class, nothing is really hard.... it's taking just some time and difficulties to learn how to play. MNK, DRG, NIN, HEAL, TANK, Support... nothing is hard... It's just a point of view from outer perspective.
I was mnk before nin, and for both of them it's just a choregraphy to learn.

[Leonus]

All I know is, if I Goad a brd, when I need it... I better get paeon when I need it.

Or I stop giving the brd goad, and make him/her give everyone tp.
If you have 2 melee dps in your pt, singing paeon outweighs the mages having foes if the melee dps are low on tp.

Edit: I meet far too many brds that refuse to sing when melee dps is suffering from being low on tp.

[Ephier]

Ninja nerfs are a joke. We got a tiny slap on the wrist and people still crying about that. Could have been MUCH worse.