Objective comparison of Mnk and Nin difficulty to play ?

[PROBOUND]

Again people seem to be loosing track of the issue at hand.

"A badly played NIN is on the heels of The Best MNKs"

There are no punishments. Screw up your rotation? No problem! Forget to cast mudra? Don't worry about it! What's this skill called Huton? Who needs it! (Exadurating but u get my point) Forgot to use Suiton? lol "Sillyyyy Rabbitt! tricks are for kids"

U will still outperform the best DRG everyday of the week and make the MNK 2nd guess rolling the class.

Something needed to be done. Plain and simple.

[Leonus]

Yea, it you could just initiate the attack from required position and start moving for the other during the actual attack animation. Both work honestly, I'm amazed when I see so many people that don't move until the attack animation is over.

[Taliss]

There are no punishments. Screw up your rotation? No problem! Forget to cast mudra? Don't worry about it! What's this skill called Huton? Who needs it! (Exadurating but u get my point) Forgot to use Suiton? lol "Sillyyyy Rabbitt! tricks are for kids"

Losing huton without access to ninjitsu within the next 3-ish seconds is a noticeable dps loss, losing the slashing resistance debuff (dancing edge or storm's eye) is a noticeable dps loss, missing a trick attack is a noticeable dps loss (for the whole party). Bad ninjas are noticeably bad and are punished, just that their punishments are from playing poorly and not from a boss going "You guys hurt, I'm leaving the arena for 15 seconds so you can lose GL3!"

[whiskeybravo]

Something needed to be done. Plain and simple.

I just don't think it should be because the few top players pushing 600 dps, though. It shouldn't be like DRG is now where you have to be absolutely flawless to remain competitive with an above-average MNK.

[SpecialKK]

I mess up a mudra cast I cuss myself out because my dps is tanking and i just set my entire mudra rotation backwards by 20 seconds every single time I mess up if it was when I was supposed to Futon or Suiton. Plus I loose damage if I use kassatsu to fix my flub on the previous two since it won't be used on raiton that cycle.

Each class has its difficulties and looking at these pre 2.45 oatch.. Drg should be higher in dps than either mnk or nin.

That's the difference though. The "problems" that MNK/DRG have pertains to boss movement (tank movement, boss turns, etc..). DRG is less forgiving than MNK in this regards. When you factor this with other mechanics (dodging), it adds additional difficulty to making sure you hit your "spot". You don't deal with any of that with NIN.

There is only one "difficulty" with NIN, and it's mudras. That however, is a "controlled" difficulty (for the most part). That is, you mess up Mudra then it's your fault...not the boss mechanics, not the tank's...but yours. The only "uncontrolled" difficulty of NIN is the lag in casting Mudra. I suffer from this a lot on dungeons, and it was ultimately what made me decide to stick to DRG (i really found NIN more enjoyable to play). I just don't have the confidence that I can hit my mudras consistently given my internet connectivity.

[Sequora]

Q3: Ninja is able to silence, stun, and I feel like their DPS output is a bit too high. Do you have any plans to make adjustments to they are balanced with other jobs?

A3: With the mudra combinations, ninja is a job where it’s tricky to deal damage, and we’ve set their DPS to be somewhat higher than other jobs. However, players have really been pushing ninja to the limit, and while it’s only by a slight percentage, DPS is being output a bit higher than anticipated. Due to this, in order to make their DPS output similar to other jobs, we will be making adjustments to DPS and the TP costs of certain actions, while ensuring that the current rotation is not destroyed.

It bothers me that NIN was designed to be higher DPS then "other jobs" along with having high utility because the devs think that the job is a little more complex then other jobs. I've never really liked melee classes. This has nothing to do with complexity. I just prefer spellcasters.

[Leonus]

That's the difference though. The "problems" that MNK/DRG have pertains to boss movement (tank movement, boss turns, etc..). DRG is less forgiving than MNK in this regards. When you factor this with other mechanics (dodging), it adds additional difficulty to making sure you hit your "spot". You don't deal with any of that with NIN.

There is only one "difficulty" with NIN, and it's mudras. That however, is a "controlled" difficulty (for the most part). That is, you mess up Mudra then it's your fault...not the boss mechanics, not the tank's...but yours. The only "uncontrolled" difficulty of NIN is the lag in casting Mudra. I suffer from this a lot on dungeons, and it was ultimately what made me decide to stick to DRG (i really found NIN more enjoyable to play). I just don't have the confidence that I can hit my mudras consistently given my internet connectivity.

2 things.

the second half of your post I agree with and is what I was eluding to by saying "cuss myself out". It's because a failed mudra cast is usually my fault. Not all the time, but usually. Controlled difficulty is a good way to put it. Mudras are also quite easy to mess up.

The other is..
Mnk and Drg positional attacks are controlled in most fights. It's just mnk is punished nowhere near the same level as drg for missing them as you stated (i was a drg main)and mnks just shrug it off. You have to have to be flawless as a drg to compete with an above average mnk. In that sense, should mnk be nerfed? No.

I don't have a particular issue with a small nerf to min, as long as it's that... small. My issue comes from people saying mnk has to work harder and that nin is free an therefore should be weaker. Each class has their own challenges.

I also don't know if you were agreeing with me or not in a sense.

Bad ninja's are not on the heels of the best monks. If they are, then that mnk is not as good as he or she thinks they are. Bad ninja's flub multiple jutsus constantly, don't keep up dots and don't pay attention. If great mnks are barely in front of that ninja... then the mnks themselves are bad.

[treuhavik]

It's just NINJA is punished nowhere near the same level as MONK for missing them as you stated and NINJAs just shrug it off. You have to have to be flawless as a MONK to compete with an above average NINJA.

Since this isn't about DRGs, I fixed this for ya.

MNK does work harder for the damage it achieves. Even if it only comes down to positionals, that's a lot of extra buttons a NIN isn't having to push. Neither are "hard" but NIN is less difficult.

Edit: I'll add that I have both at i112 and, admittedly, I was just as salty when I heard the news. It's a ton of fun doing 90% of my MNK's damage on NIN with very little effort, but is it right that that's possible? Not really.

[Carstien]

OP, you seem to be mistaking the reason monks have to work harder than nin to keep up the damage. It isn't that we have a harder rotation, it isn't exactly tricky and honestly, no harder than the nin from what I know of nin. It's the stacks. Always the stacks.

Yes, hit the enemy right and they won't ever fall off, nice and simple, but fights where you can just do that are few and far between, and that is the issue. Primals for example, almost every one of them will make a monk lose his stacks, usually more than once, and pb only goes so far. Leviathan for example takes em away every time he dashes. Ifrit when he jumps, likewise garuda and titan.

In coil you will lose stacks in several situations, be it T5's getting conflagged and having to run in case of dread, or T7's shriek/most of T9. T6 and 8 aren't so bad.

Nin doesn't lose chunks of its dps for dealing with such mechanics apart from the downtime that every other class shares too.

[Leonus]

Since this isn't about DRGs, I fixed this for ya.

MNK does work harder for the damage it achieves. Even if it only comes down to positionals, that's a lot of extra buttons a NIN isn't having to push. Neither are "hard" but NIN is less difficult.

Moving yourself left and right foes not count as working harder. I can do that on ninja even though I don't have to just to even things out.

Mnk doesn't have to deal with mudras and the extra rotation that comes with it. Ninja messes up Mudra cast on futon/suiton/raiton it's a pretty big dps loss. Mnk dps loss comes from not being in position or loosing GL3. As long as the mnk can continue to hit the boss he won't loose it (GL3 anyway and it's essentially free). At that point it's not maintaining GL3, it's just dps' ing the boss.

Edit: Not gonna count dots since the both upkeep theirs. Just because mnk has positionals and ninja has 2 ( one of which is barely used) doesn't make one harder than the other when it's dealing with another rotation entirely.

I'd ninja had a positional for every move and had to deal with mudras we'd see a lot of complaining about how it's too hard or convoluted.

The two just deal with different things.