Elder Primals

[Sapphic]

Just wondering about Elder Primals.

One in particular.
Belias.

Only time it is mentioned, that I have seen is the SMN quest when Tristran summons Belias Egi.

Is there any more info about this Elder Primal? Maybe mentioned more in 1.0?

[Anonymoose]

Nope, that's it. Belias' mention is based entirely on the Summoner job crystals Tristan has stolen. Soul crystals are passed from owner to owner, carrying with them some degree of influence over the successor's acquisition of skills, seemingly somewhat dependent on their sensitivity - essentially, they're materia for jobs. In the Summoner storyline, Tristan makes a deal with an Ascian underling for the power to avenge his brother, slain by Ifrit (this is why Tristain carries Ifrit's Grimoire instead of a relic, like most other jobs' main characters; one, the Veil seems to be one-of-a-kind, and two, it shows that Tristan has defeated Ifrit and is eligible to be a summoner).

In exchange for the accumulation of Summoner job crystals (at any cost), the Ascian agreed to awaken the knowledge and power from within them and transfer it to Tristan. When he does so, part of the knowledge transferred is the memory of a long-forgotten primal faced by the Allagan SMN who once held the stone: Belias. This "awakens the primal's slumbering essence," and allows Tristan to summon its essence. That's why the primal is referred to as an elder, its essence has been around for a long time.

Why the Ascian wanted Allagan SMN stones?
Who originally worshiped Belias?
Why Belias looks like a big purple Ifrit?

All up for grabs.

[Enkidoh]

Well, let the speculation commence! On the first point, it fits in with the Ascians' MO of teaching summoning - they started with the beastmen, and clearly showed they're now going beyond that and actually teaching members of the spoken races as well (ala, those downtrodden kids in Little Ala Mhigo to summon Rhalgr). Given the fact Lahabrea mentioned that the existence of the Primals is merely a means to an end in their goal to rebirth Zodiark (to create a massive confluence of chaotic energy to overpower Hydaelyn), giving a crazed SMN the power to call upon the essence from a Soul Crystal directly and summon the egi of a long forgotten Primal only furthered the Ascians' goal (spreading chaos and destruction).

As for why Belias-egi was simply a large pallete-swap of Ifrit-egi though, I guess that was just for technical reasons - to save on memory and development time that would have to be spent on making a new enemy model (and that pretty much is conclusive that the real Belias will probably then never be actually fought at a later date).

Unless there is more to that than meets the eye - maybe there's something like FFIX where summons change their form over time depending on how the myths and legends that give them life evolve and change with each retelling. Maybe, Belias and Ifrit are one and the same, with 'Belias' simply being what Ifrit was known as thousands of years earlier, even before the amal'jaa arrived and adopted Ifrit as their god.

But again, this is just all my speculation so take what you will of it.

[Evane]

While I like where this Belias was Ifrit's long lost name is going, here is another speculation. Tristan had the essence of Belias in the crystal, he doesn't know how Belias looks like so when summoning, it came out as a dark Ifrit-Egi. Where the dark coloration represents his hate towards Ifrit.

SE said before 2.0’s release, that we'll at some point be able to summon the full Primals once a week if we defeat them out in fields. Maybe that idea was scrapped, but it makes me think that the lore of such mechanic is related to what the Acsians are doing. Teach people about ancient primals to create the possibility of summoning the full fledged primal. Sowing the seeds and all that.

[Sapphic]

Unless there is more to that than meets the eye - maybe there's something like FFIX where summons change their form over time depending on how the myths and legends that give them life evolve and change with each retelling. Maybe, Belias and Ifrit are one and the same, with 'Belias' simply being what Ifrit was known as thousands of years earlier, even before the amal'jaa arrived and adopted Ifrit as their god.

But again, this is just all my speculation so take what you will of it.

But Belias is referred to as an elder primal, which Ifrit isn't.

[RaphaelDDL]

Belias is part of Ivalice Alliance (as Chaos, Zalera, Zeromus, Addramalech and so on) which is mainly FF Tactics and FF XII.

I don't see other Lore specific things that would pop on XIV, since it isn't part of Ivalice. So I don't even see how they would actually reefer to an Esper from said history line if XIV is not related.

Maybe they needed a random name and used it.

[MarcJacob]

We aren't saying that Ifrit is an Elder Primal. We are saying that Belias and Ifrit could be, at their core, the same entity. Think of it like different sects of religions. They tend to pray to the same god but sometimes have different names for them or rituals. Perhaps the Amal'Jaa were praying to Belias at first but over time he took on a new form. Ifrit being the end result. Maybe they were praying to Belias and saw his flames and in their language "Ifrit" means god of flame.

[lololink]

Belias is part of Ivalice Alliance (as Chaos, Zalera, Zeromus, Addramalech and so on) which is mainly FF Tactics and FF XII.

I don't see other Lore specific things that would pop on XIV, since it isn't part of Ivalice. So I don't even see how they would actually reefer to an Esper from said history line if XIV is not related.

Maybe they needed a random name and used it.

They just want to put a lot of other FF lore into XIV, there is a city named Dalmasca ( under controll of Garlemald, seems like a running gag ), the crystal tower and plenty of other thing, I don't think they want to limit belias and the other eons from Ivalice to simply another name for the same summon. Especially considering that the ascians are 13 and have name linked to the espers of Ivalice, be ready to see them coming someday.