Isn`t just vanity. Is 2 diferent experiences and thats why is bad.

[Serdapi]

Well god damn, talk about stretching semantics. Except your whole argument falls apart when you realize that, wait a second, if it's not ultimately enjoyable, then it's a shitty game, and they don't want a shitty game, because crap, now we have to remake it again...?

Which makes enjoyment both the effect, feeling and overarching purpose of the game. If it's not fun people aren't going to play it.

See, i can make stupid arguments too

Sorry you aren't good at arguments. Enjoyment and "Shitty games" are feelings/opinions that's why its not a purpose. Also, people play games that aren't fun all the time, especially when friends and social pressures are involved in MMO games.

I'm done with you kid, go back to making bad arguments and false claims about the content of this games and others.

[Zooters]

Well god damn, talk about stretching semantics...

Serdapi is making a fine and reasonable debate. If I write a novel, it is to tell a story. If people enjoy it, that is up to if they liked or disliked the story I provided. Enjoyment is a subjective term and in any "argument" could be made for any artistic endeavor. But, reality is, the game makers made the game with a certain main story in mind & around. Fact that someone enjoys side content more than what the game is made around, is your own personal & subjective enjoyment. It doesn't change the foundation of what the game was built around, which is dungeons, raids, trials and gear to move on to higher forms of each.

[Edellis]

Sorry you aren't good at arguments. Enjoyment and "Shitty games" are feelings/opinions that's why its not a purpose. Also, people play games that aren't fun all the time, especially when friends and social pressures are involved in MMO games.

I'm done with you kid, go back to making bad arguments and false claims about the content of this games and others.

Well sorry again, Mr. Grownup, but "compelling content" is entirely subjective, and the main story might not strike everyone's fancy, see. This means enjoyment is also subjective and the purpose is now defined entirely by the emotions of the player, who himself decides whether or not the devs made an awesome game.

And uh, no, people don't play un-fun games all the time, that's just, like, your opinion, man. I personally think Boob Bunny Fighter Online is a wicked sick game, because i like terrible games. They give me enjoyment because...

...wait, what?

[LaylaTsarra]

Well sorry again, Mr. Grownup, but "compelling content" is entirely subjective, and the main story might not strike everyone's fancy, see. This means enjoyment is also subjective and the purpose is now defined entirely by the emotions of the player, who himself decides whether or not the devs made an awesome game.

And uh, no, people don't play un-fun games all the time, that's just, like, your opinion, man. I personally think Boob Bunny Fighter Online is a wicked sick game, because i like terrible games. They give me enjoyment because...

...wait, what?

With some it's their way or the highway. Got to love it. Having a different point of view does not make one a kid.

[Edellis]

Serdapi is making a fine and reasonable debate. If I write a novel, it is to tell a story. If people enjoy it, that is up to if they liked or disliked the story I provided. Enjoyment is a subjective term and in any "argument" could be made for any artistic endeavor. But, reality is, the game makers made the game with a certain main story in mind & around. Fact that someone enjoys side content more than what the game is made around, is your own personal & subjective enjoyment. It doesn't change the foundation of what the game was built around, which is dungeons, raids, trials and gear to move on to higher forms of each.

He would be making a fine and reasonable debate, if we were discussing a novel. But a videogame is not a novel. The story would be utterly pointless if the gameplay wasn't fun...but could you make the same argument in vice versa? Well, perhaps you could, I wouldn't bother with ARR if it wasn't well written with good artistic design...but that's not really the point.

If the FFXIII trilogy, Metroid: Other M and DmC: Devil May Cry has taught us anything, it's that "story" really isn't going to carry your game for you. Granted, all 3 of those games had dreadful stories...but then again, their main focal point, ironically, was to have an emotionally gripping, powerful story.


All i'm saying is, there's really no reason in disconnecting the two, and from a game design perspective, it's much, much better to instead view both of them as one interlocking entity. Completely unrelated to this discussion, I actually think XIV does that exceedingly well.

[Kuwagami]

Nobody bought the CE for the in-game items, they bought it for that AND tons of other awesome tangible loot they got with the package.

you missed the point by a far shot. Physical CE edition is no longer available (will probably return with 3.0 but until then...) so all that remains is the digital upgrade to CE, which only gives 2 mounts, 2 minions, a leveling helmet and that's it... for $20. And people are perfectly fine with that. Although it is exactly the same as what's in the CS, except it's a bargain because you'll get future CE's digital upgrades, and includes a little "P2W" factor in that leveling helmet (worthless after lv20 but not the point).

But yet again, noone ever complained about the digital CE upgrade. I wonder why

Well sorry again, Mr. Grownup, but "compelling content" is entirely subjective, and the main story might not strike everyone's fancy, see. This means enjoyment is also subjective and the purpose is now defined entirely by the emotions of the player, who himself decides whether or not the devs made an awesome game.

here again you fail to see the point.

Devs create a game. They make it with an objective in mind, which is telling a story, creating challenging raids, etc etc. And they add extra fluff for vanity inside.
Therefore, the purpose of the game is to tell you this story the devs made especially for you.

Do you like it ? do you hate it ? That's where the enjoyment part comes in. But it's no longer the purpose of the game. It's its results. And it's no longer a game purpose but a commercial purpose. Things you enjoy doing in the game may not be related to the game's purpose. That's what vanity is for. There would be no point for vanity in a game where people only rush to the end like mindless zerg machines. But you shouldn't then misunderstand these things you enjoy as the purpose of the game.

[Zooters]

snip

You're really just talking around what everyone is saying to you. Adjusting what you're trying to say to support yourself. It's just going in circles beyond this point. To sum things up, the Core Game is Dungeons, Raids, Trials and gear to move on to higher Dungeons, Raids and Trials that get you more gear. Side quests, minions, housing, wedding, mounts, etc... are all side components of the game, from the point of the game makers. If you play to collect things, the game was not built to you. The devs aren't making Animal Crossing. If that's the type of game you enjoy, this might not be the best game for you. Though you can do the collecting, it just sounds like people don't enjoy the way it is implemented, but again, it isn't the developers main focus. It isn't the main core of their game.

[Edellis]

But yet again, noone ever complained about the digital CE upgrade. I wonder why

...because, no matter how many times people try to make this situation analogous to the cash shop...fundementally it isn't. That's why it doesn't get the same response.

here again you fail to see the point.

Devs create a game. They make it with an objective in mind, which is telling a story, creating challenging raids, etc etc. And they add extra fluff for vanity inside.
Therefore, the purpose of the game is to tell you this story the devs made especially for you.

first off, that was almost entirely a troll post.

Second, the point you're failing to see is, if the devs only wanted to tell you an awesome story, they could have just cut out the programmers, sound directors, hired Yoshida for some cover art and sold a novel. But they didn't they made an entire game. The objective, the main objective, the only true objective, especially as an P2P MMO, is for you to play the game. Everything they made is utterly pointless if this doesn't happen, because now they aren't getting paid.

You may not believe this, but everything in the game encompasses "gameplay". You may PERSONALLY play the game and keep playing for your own reasons, but to cut out little pieces (vanity, raid content, lore content, main story content) as if they are mutually exclusive features makes no sense. This is literally the only reason cash shop exists, because the content they put there is technically part of why you're playing the game, but if you weren't drawn in by the rest of the content you wouldn't even be subscribed to it.

stuff

I hate animal crossing, so, yeah, stuff

[Jacost]

snip

First, I'd point out that the digital download version of the CE, and the mogstation upgrade, only carry the ingame stuff. Yet people bought it anyway. The physical package is even more expensive, and one could even argue that the physical loot is itself like a cash shop bonus.

Second, how on earth is the Sleipnir mount a "super special ride" while the Coeurl mount has "a practical purpose for existing"? They're both exclusive mounts, and they both move at the same damn speed as the normal mounts. Literally the only thing the CE gives that's "practical" is the one-time-password token (which is the main reason I got it), and that only comes with the physical edition. The digital version is equivalent to getting stuff off the cash shop.

[Roris]

First, I'd point out that the digital download version of the CE, and the mogstation upgrade, only carry the ingame stuff. Yet people bought it anyway. The physical package is even more expensive, and one could even argue that the physical loot is itself like a cash shop bonus.

Second, how on earth is the Sleipnir mount a "super special ride" while the Coeurl mount has "a practical purpose for existing"? They're both exclusive mounts, and they both move at the same damn speed as the normal mounts. If there was a cash shop exclusive dungeon your analogy would make sense, but as it is buying the CE upgrade off the mogstation and buying stuff off the cash shop is exactly the same.

No one is arguing it's not exactly the same. The difference is, physical CEs exist and offer both physical and digital items at the same time. Physical CEs always come first, most people buy physical CEs for the physical goodies themselves. Had there not been any physical CEs at all, then yes, it'd be exactly the same as offering any other item on any cash shop, except of items sold individually they're being sold as a pack I guess. Seeing how physical CEs already cost more than a regular edition to cover the costs of the additional physical items being offered, it's not really a bonus at all, people know exactly what they're paying for both physically and digitally when they buy one.

Yes, people still buy digital CEs anyway because they either like collecting stuff or to support the game and company, and yes that's still fine. Again, the qualms are about the transparency of how the cash shop stuff is being handled, especially moving forward.