Isn`t just vanity. Is 2 diferent experiences and thats why is bad.

[Meier]

http://2p.com/3495384_1/FFXIV-ARR-Le...-flamedust.htm

Mount and other stuff shown. No mention of a cash shop whatsoever.

Please show me where they said it will be bought in a cash shop. Afaik it was mever mentioned.

[FateAudax]

http://2p.com/3495384_1/FFXIV-ARR-Le...-flamedust.htm

Mount and other stuff shown. No mention of a cash shop whatsoever.

Please show me where they said it will be bought in a cash shop. Afaik it was mever mentioned.

Hmm.. let's see. No mention that it'll be free either. Please show me where they said it'll be free, made available to all players and will not be in cash shop? Afaik it was never mentioned.

[Riepah]

Hmm.. let's see. No mention that it'll be free either. Please show me where they said it'll be free, made available to all players and will not be in cash shop? Afaik it was never mentioned.

Good job. From now on, nobody will ever be able to look forward to anything SE announce anymore, because for all we know, it could all end up in the cash shop, which they'll only tell us at the last minute. Good thing at least some people, like you, will be okay with that.

You guys assumed that every single upcoming feature which SE will introduce to this game will be made free and available to everyone just because you're playing a subscription based game. Please note that the keyword here is assume.

I don't find it an issue if I am required to pay extra if I wanted the extra feature. If I am unwilling to pay, I can very well accept the standard feature. In no way we are to assume the extra feature is the full experience.

I hope you realize this silly "standard vs extra" argument of yours gives them a free pass to slap anything they want in the cash shop, because as long as they claim it's "extra", there'll be people like you to jump to their defense. Whether what they're putting in the cash shop was initially intended to be in the cash shop, or just put there when they realized they could sell it to the playerbase instead of giving it away for just the subscription as there are plenty gullible and spending-happy players, doesn't matter at that point. Enjoy paying more for the same / paying the same for less.

[FateAudax]

Good job. From now on, nobody will ever be able to look forward to anything SE announce anymore, because for all we know, it could all end up in the cash shop, which they'll only tell us at the last minute. Good thing at least some people, like you, will be okay with that.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...aa739e064b3ebe
Ctrl+F > search: [35:12]

When wedding was first announced, they said and I quote "the system is going to be huge and very customizable". In no way they said it will be free or paid.

You guys assumed that every single upcoming feature which SE will introduce to this game will be made free and available to everyone just because you're playing a subscription based game. Please note that the keyword here is assume.

I don't find it an issue if I am required to pay extra if I wanted the extra feature. If I am unwilling to pay, I can very well accept the standard feature. In no way we are to assume the extra feature is the full experience.

[Roris]

What a lot of the people that are for the "it's only vanity you aren't winning anything in the cash shop" argument forget, and disregarding again that MMOs have many objectives to works towards, is that the entire base of the debate isn't really about vanity only. Sure, Eternal Bond might have resparked the argument, yet the cash shop debacle goes back as early as paid Retainers, if not a bit before.

Extra Retainers, also sold on the cash shop or rather rented, already offer a clear advantage especially for crafters in regards to faster means to obtain shards and mats, and also another clear advantage that's not entirely limited to crafters by giving people who buy them 40 extra slots to make bigger profits on the markets. A very clear advantage that leans really close to P2W, that a lot of the people defending the current cash shop always seem to forget or omit in their arguments.

It's not about being a "martyr" just like this isn't only about vanity either. We already have very clear aspects of your typical cash shop found in your typical F2P MMOs: we have the vanity aspect, we have the premium services aspect, we have a taste of the P2W/P2Convenience aspect and sure your basic MMO services like race/appearance change, name change and server transfers. It's only logical to expect or at least be cautious of the direction the cash shop and the game are heading to.

You really can't fault people for being concerned about the game spiraling down further towards the typical F2P or even a B2P treatment of an MMO, especially while the game is still P2P. That is, cutting content for a price or giving clear paid advantages, once again, paid advantages like paid retainers already offer. To give an example of a B2P treatment, TSW is B2P yet it sells its story content for a price, think of it as ARR selling 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, etc for different prices with only the bug fixes and system additions being free for everyone. GW2 offers its Living Story, as good or bad as your opinion on it or the game as a whole is, for free for the first weeks, after that you can only access it through their shop, which admittedly allows everything to be purchased with in game currency. Now picture ARR doing this while still maintaining a subscription. Like others have mentioned, there's a big concern that upcoming content will be monetized upon. Triple Triad, Golden Saucer tokens, premium Chocobo Racing/Rasing Chocobos or items, premium airships, premium GC squadmates, who knows maybe even premium classes and jobs.

Sure this is all just "being paranoid" and it's just conjecture until it either happens or it doesn't, but again the concerns are very well justified seeing how the cash shop is already being treated, especially after previous SE statements towards promised features not holding their weight.

Like some others have also said however, even with all this, yes it's perfectly acceptable for any company to seek alternate venues to make even more money. They might actually really invest it towards improving the game like they've said, they might also invest it in different projects or pocket it all. They are a company and yeah it is their money to do what they want with it, and if so called whales are willing to give it all to them, even more power to them. At least it's better to vent this all out now instead of later and have people say "well no one spoke against it, you could have stopped this" or "it's all the players' fault, they demanded to be nickel by services that extend beyond the basic realm of services in any MMO like Fantasia is, they demanded the basic MMO option to race/appearance change at will after all" or "yeah well players practically demanded it to be F2P, no one wanted the game to be P2P forever and keep all the content in the game provided to them solely on their subscription, who wants that these days anyway?" or the always great "well, those F2P freeloaders don't pay so they don't have any say, see I bought a couple of things on the shop, now I have a real say and I matter more".

[BlaiseArath]

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...aa739e064b3ebe
Ctrl+F > search: [35:12]

When wedding was first announced, they said and I quote "the system is going to be huge and very customizable". In no way they said it will be free or paid.

You guys assumed that every single upcoming feature which SE will introduce to this game will be made free and available to everyone just because you're playing a subscription based game. Please note that the keyword here is assume.

I don't find it an issue if I am required to pay extra if I wanted the extra feature. If I am unwilling to pay, I can very well accept the standard feature. In no way we are to assume the extra feature is the full experience.

Its this mindset that allows companies to milk the ever living dollar out of you and us and get away with it. slap the word "Extra feature!" on it and the common idiot will automatically believe that they've only got our best intentions in mind, and so they decided to divine us with the blessing of more stuff for the low price of your credit card. Sorry, but I'm not so naive as to think these extras are such a high cost for SE that they need to be paid for in real life cash. Let me show you something from Final Fantasy XI, a subscription based MMO made by Square Enix, one devoid of a cash shop

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Wedding_Guide (note, there is a wedding fee mentioned, this fee is in >in game currency (gil)< not real life money)

More details: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/M...nal_Fantasy_XI)

Full wedding services including the size of your wedding, the location you'd like to set it up, a GM, an actual paid employee taking time out of doing GM things, who will wed you in game, free fireworks to all participants to set off at the end of the ceremony, and the ability for you to sign any in-game item in a unique way(Normally signed items just have your name, but for the wedding event, you can sign it however you want so long as it wasn't offensive. this is a 100% unique feature exclusively for weddings). All of this? Completely free. There were extras you could purchase (Wedding Dress/Groom Tux), but they were purchased with in-game currency, not RL money. This is how the wedding should have been handled. In every right this "standard" wedding is every bit as special as the "Special" one offered in XIV for real life money.

I have plenty of context to justify that this content should have been provided free of charge, But, we have a cash shop, so naturally, we have to pay real money, cause theres no profit in letting us buy extras with in game currency. This is simply greed and seeing how much they can get away with here. Now I can't hate on SE for wanting to make money, they are a business after all, and one that was on the verge of bankruptcy not too long ago... but what I can do is argue against people who think this kind of thing is our, the consumers, fault for having the audacity to assume a Pay to play MMO might not gate as much content as they can get away with behind a second pay wall.

[Mook_Mook]

my final hat throw into this forray. Forum posting does nothing people have to take action, until a significant amount of revenue is lost SE will not change its practices, because its just too much money to be made. People support this and thats there right too, while I personally do not agree I have unsubbed from the game and will not be returning till the expansion and even then they have to show they have really upped there game. Until people can make SE take there hit to the wallet they will continue to push the envolope to the breaking point as people willingly support this (which they are allowed too) so do more than just post of the forums and then continue playing the game, make a statement and take away the one thing SE wants your money.
edit
Yes I am Mook Mook from Notorious on Wutai, Hiii spawn!

[BlaiseArath]

frigging1klimit

I agree, its a shame that the only way we can get to them is to cut into their bottom line, while that is our only power as a consumer, is a powerful one.

Now, I've said from the beginning I have no plans to quit over it since I'm not so fervidly against it (that is, until they start going stupid with it.. a few Mounts/Minions and a service I will never participate in aren't getting me out just yet)... and hell I'll admit maybe we're getting ahead of ourselves with the cash shop thing... chances are they'll only add mounts/vanity which I cant bring myself to care about. This wedding thing worries me though, not enough to quit, but enough that I'll be keeping an eye on the cash shop and weighing it accordingly.

[Roris]

Forum posting does nothing people have to take action, until a significant amount of revenue is lost SE will not change its practices

I agree because once a company sets their mind on monetization, it's really hard to change their decisions no matter how many walls of text are written about it, though it is possible and has been done before. However seeing an even bigger dip in subscriptions will most likely only cause them to push the F2P emergency button even harder, especially this far in, but guess we'll have to wait and see. About making a statement, well I bought a 6 month sub about 3 or so months ago so personally can't do anything about that yet.

[Mook_Mook]

I'm with your roris, my sub is still going too, but i wont be logging on just posting of the forums. Sticking up for the minion collectors and vanity people who people cannot empathize with because pay 2 win is only raid gear.
@Blaise everyone has there own threshold of what is acceptable isnt acceptable. Obviously people are passionate about this game, I mean im sure people put a lot of time into this and want to defend there product there character because it holds significant meaning. Makes it hard to be objective when we are so emotional lol. But just know your limits and keep an eye out!