Which classes do you think need adjustments?

[Sen_Terrechant]

I simple buff to Piety for SMN would fix the MP issues, just 500 more MP would give another 200 MP/minute in battle on top of the extra 500 before you run dry. Of course, then SMN would be asking for more spell speed.

SMN will never ask for spell speed, if anything we will ask for less.

To elaborate: Our DoTs are not affected by spell speed, they will always tick every 3 seconds for the same amount of damage.
Festers are not affected by spell speed, they are limited by the one minute aetherflow cooldowns.
Shadowflare is not affected by spell speed.
Our Pets are not affected by our spell speed.

The only spell which spell speed 'improves' is Ruin. All it does is give us 1-2 extra Ruin casts. This is bad because Ruin is our absolute worst spell that we only use when we cant be doing something better.

Oh and spell speed causes us to OOM faster. Not good.

[CGMidlander]

Removing Shoulder Tackle's stun would be nice. It's not really all that helpful (need to walk back to use, short duration of stun) and can be detrimental sometimes if you need to get to something quickly but don't want to build stun resistance. (e.g. Add in Levi EX, Dreadknights in T5, Ifrit HM)

[StouterTaru]

SMN will never ask for spell speed, if anything we will ask for less.

...

Oh and spell speed causes us to OOM faster. Not good.

That was the point, give SMN enough MP that there is no OOM issue, and they will ask for more spell speed to get those extra ruins in.

[Sleigh]

That was the point, give SMN enough MP that there is no OOM issue, and they will ask for more spell speed to get those extra ruins in.

SS would be more beneficial if there are no mana issues but it still won't touch CHR or DET's affect on their DPS. With how they do DPS they'll never value SS until an inherent change in their mechanics.

[Shurrikhan]

What content is this that ever requires paeon? If the answer is Final coil, then I'll have to ask you to forgive my ignorance as I have not participated in it yet. In any case, short of final coil, there is nothing, not a single bit of content in the entire game in which a job with invigorate ever needs paeon unless A: it's a giant AoE fest (like pre echo t4) or B: you have screwed up, either by dying, or by not making correct use out of invigorate. Even in the incredibly TP intensive T8, invigorate is more than sufficient to get you through the entire fight. Really, the only jobs that should ever -need- goad are mnk, pld, and war.

Final Coil is exactly where this, and just about everything else, really matters...

Sidenote: my Bard bleeds TP faster than my PLD and WAR (60 spam, 70 every 8 moves/per proc and 2 80s per 7 moves [66.25] >> 70-60-60 spam avg [63.33]; more so in multi-target/multi-DoT situations. The ability for the Nin to goad a bard 2/3s of the time and self 1/3 of the time [2 casters] is about the only way you're going to skip Paeon altogether over a 11+ minute fight. Otherwise, that Bard is going to be Paeoning himself not long after the Monk needs it, and well before the rest.

[Even a Monk will only be at 55.77 avg cost w/o Fracture, which you can modify to 64.86 with GL (no bonus SS)). Though it would be rare to find a Monk w/o SS, they really wouldn't be depleting any faster than a Bard getting plentiful Straighter Shot procs).

SS would be more beneficial if there are no mana issues but it still won't touch CHR or DET's affect on their DPS. With how they do DPS they'll never value SS until an inherent change in their mechanics.

Or if SS itself was changed, such as by affecting Aetherflow CD... among others... *prays*

[Sunako]

SMN will never ask for spell speed, if anything we will ask for less.

To elaborate: Our DoTs are not affected by spell speed, they will always tick every 3 seconds for the same amount of damage.
Festers are not affected by spell speed, they are limited by the one minute aetherflow cooldowns.
Shadowflare is not affected by spell speed.
Our Pets are not affected by our spell speed.

The only spell which spell speed 'improves' is Ruin. All it does is give us 1-2 extra Ruin casts. This is bad because Ruin is our absolute worst spell that we only use when we cant be doing something better.

Oh and spell speed causes us to OOM faster. Not good.

If i remember right it affect pet gcd as well.

EDIT:nvm just check it and it does not affect the pet

[Sleigh]

If i remember right it affect pet gcd as well.

It distinctly doesn't, as per a post by SE officials saying it's not intended to.

[Spartan117]

I don't know what to say. The drg and nin in my static never had a need of paeon, and neither have I maybe our dps is just high enough to beat the tp bleed. Only songs I've ever needed to cast were requiem as often as possible for our blm and smn, and occasionally a ballad if things went wrong.

What content is this that ever requires paeon? If the answer is Final coil, then I'll have to ask you to forgive my ignorance as I have not participated in it yet. In any case, short of final coil, there is nothing, not a single bit of content in the entire game in which a job with invigorate ever needs paeon unless A: it's a giant AoE fest (like pre echo t4) or B: you have screwed up, either by dying, or by not making correct use out of invigorate. Even in the incredibly TP intensive T8, invigorate is more than sufficient to get you through the entire fight. Really, the only jobs that should ever -need- goad are mnk, pld, and war.

...yes, it does. It's not enough though. Not enough to dragoons either, even though they have it traited.

I like how someone who has

ONE, only raided on Bard,
TWO, to SCOB content only,
THREE, doesn't know MNK can cross-class invigorate,

tries to speak for all TP using classes that paeon is never needed. If that isn't naive sweeping generalisation then I don't know what is. Your understanding of how your bard skills affect the rest of your party to the finer details is very lacking, and disturbing my friend.

If you have the time, go pop by MNK or DRG's forum threads (yes all 412 pages for the DRG one). TP has always been an issue for fights beyond the 6 minute mark, if there are no breaks in attack in between.

If your NIN is goading your DRG on top of his invigorate then fine, I don't think DRG needs the paeon, though you might be TP starved for a few GCDs before your invigorate comes back up towards the end, but nothing that is worth huge QQ over why my bard doesn't want to paeon for me. Alternatively if your DRG isn't getting the goads, then ask your DRG honestly how much downtime he suffers while being TP starved. That or he is not carrying his own weight at all

Truth be told, for up to turn 12, ONE session of Paeon is always required, pretty much between the 3rd and 4th invigorate to bridge the TP Burn vs TP regen such that you don't burn out b4 your invigorate comes up. Typically this extends the TP regen cycle by 1 invigorate cooldown, meaning once the 400/500 TP from the 4th invigorate finishes, you're TP starved for roughly 10 GCDs before your invigorate comes back up. This 5th invigorate is bridged using LB3. Yes we still regen TP while casting that 3 GCD worth of LB3, and the TP regen without TP usage during the casting of LB3 is later expended over time till the 6th invigorate comes up.

By the 6th invigorate, you would be roughly 11-12 minutes into the fight (each invigorate is 2 min cooldown, your first invigorate is popped roughly a min into the fight). By then you would have hit enrage or hitting enrage soon in all contents so far. So basically you burn the boss down after you finish that 400/500 TP regen from that 6th invigorate.

The above is with consideration for bards to use as little damage reduction songs as possible (Read as Paeon or Ballad). If your party's mana management is fine and nobody's dying to shit, usually bards do 15 seconds of paeon with battle voice, followed by 15 seconds of ballad, with the rest of the mana and battle voice channeled to foe requiem.

[Lawson_Grey]

I'd like to see Bards lose the damage penalty for singing Paeon/Ballad.

It really sucks from a gameplay design point of view to penalize a player for trying to help their group.

The songs themselves don't add all that much to gameplay. Foes is played 90% of the time. Ballad during progression/if a fight goes bad and lots of resses go out. Paeon pretty rarely, maybe once per fight without a ninja.

There's no real reason to keep the damage penalty in place for two songs since the song you sing 90% of the time doesn't penalize you.

[Leonus]

I'd like to see brds play paeon... period.