Which classes do you think need adjustments?

[Skeith-Adeline]

What is everybody's opinion on Monks and Bards?

[Akamu_Aniketos]

What is everybody's opinion on Monks and Bards?

Monks plays like a thief and I'm sick of it. I don't feel like a Monk in this game.

[Sessurea]

What is everybody's opinion on Monks and Bards?

Wouldn't change a single thing about bard.

[Skeith-Adeline]

I believe Bards are more than fine but many people are asking for buffs on Bards. Was wondering if anybody else felt this way and why

[Sequora]

I believe Bards are more than fine but many people are asking for buffs on Bards. Was wondering if anybody else felt this way and why

I think it's because a lot of people want to play a DPS class with a bow. BRD has extremely high raid wide utility. They sacrifice some DPS for their utility. Some BRD's think that they're DPS should be higher.

[Zophar]

This is also true of every physical job except a skill speed Monk. I don't see why that should keep the Ninja alone from being unable to receive its Goad. ...Except that it would be the only melee not to require a Bard, but then, what group doesn't bring a Bard, let alone goad it?

What content is this that ever requires paeon? If the answer is Final coil, then I'll have to ask you to forgive my ignorance as I have not participated in it yet. In any case, short of final coil, there is nothing, not a single bit of content in the entire game in which a job with invigorate ever needs paeon unless A: it's a giant AoE fest (like pre echo t4) or B: you have screwed up, either by dying, or by not making correct use out of invigorate. Even in the incredibly TP intensive T8, invigorate is more than sufficient to get you through the entire fight. Really, the only jobs that should ever -need- goad are mnk, pld, and war.

[dday3six]

What content is this that ever requires paeon? If the answer is Final coil, then I'll have to ask you to forgive my ignorance as I have not participated in it yet. In any case, short of final coil, there is nothing, not a single bit of content in the entire game in which a job with invigorate ever needs paeon unless A: it's a giant AoE fest (like pre echo t4) or B: you have screwed up, either by dying, or by not making correct use out of invigorate. Even in the incredibly TP intensive T8, invigorate is more than sufficient to get you through the entire fight. Really, the only jobs that should ever -need- goad are mnk, pld, and war.

Bard drinks TP like a milkshake thanks to Straighter Shot procs and should be on any list of needs Goad. It's thanks to over-gearing and echo that T8 may no longer require Paeon for some raids. This was no the case in the beginning.

[Spartan117]

I don't know what to say. The drg and nin in my static never had a need of paeon, and neither have I maybe our dps is just high enough to beat the tp bleed. Only songs I've ever needed to cast were requiem as often as possible for our blm and smn, and occasionally a ballad if things went wrong.

What content is this that ever requires paeon? If the answer is Final coil, then I'll have to ask you to forgive my ignorance as I have not participated in it yet. In any case, short of final coil, there is nothing, not a single bit of content in the entire game in which a job with invigorate ever needs paeon unless A: it's a giant AoE fest (like pre echo t4) or B: you have screwed up, either by dying, or by not making correct use out of invigorate. Even in the incredibly TP intensive T8, invigorate is more than sufficient to get you through the entire fight. Really, the only jobs that should ever -need- goad are mnk, pld, and war.

...yes, it does. It's not enough though. Not enough to dragoons either, even though they have it traited.

I like how someone who has

ONE, only raided on Bard,
TWO, to SCOB content only,
THREE, doesn't know MNK can cross-class invigorate,

tries to speak for all TP using classes that paeon is never needed. If that isn't naive sweeping generalisation then I don't know what is. Your understanding of how your bard skills affect the rest of your party to the finer details is very lacking, and disturbing my friend.

If you have the time, go pop by MNK or DRG's forum threads (yes all 412 pages for the DRG one). TP has always been an issue for fights beyond the 6 minute mark, if there are no breaks in attack in between.

If your NIN is goading your DRG on top of his invigorate then fine, I don't think DRG needs the paeon, though you might be TP starved for a few GCDs before your invigorate comes back up towards the end, but nothing that is worth huge QQ over why my bard doesn't want to paeon for me. Alternatively if your DRG isn't getting the goads, then ask your DRG honestly how much downtime he suffers while being TP starved. That or he is not carrying his own weight at all

Truth be told, for up to turn 12, ONE session of Paeon is always required, pretty much between the 3rd and 4th invigorate to bridge the TP Burn vs TP regen such that you don't burn out b4 your invigorate comes up. Typically this extends the TP regen cycle by 1 invigorate cooldown, meaning once the 400/500 TP from the 4th invigorate finishes, you're TP starved for roughly 10 GCDs before your invigorate comes back up. This 5th invigorate is bridged using LB3. Yes we still regen TP while casting that 3 GCD worth of LB3, and the TP regen without TP usage during the casting of LB3 is later expended over time till the 6th invigorate comes up.

By the 6th invigorate, you would be roughly 11-12 minutes into the fight (each invigorate is 2 min cooldown, your first invigorate is popped roughly a min into the fight). By then you would have hit enrage or hitting enrage soon in all contents so far. So basically you burn the boss down after you finish that 400/500 TP regen from that 6th invigorate.

The above is with consideration for bards to use as little damage reduction songs as possible (Read as Paeon or Ballad). If your party's mana management is fine and nobody's dying to shit, usually bards do 15 seconds of paeon with battle voice, followed by 15 seconds of ballad, with the rest of the mana and battle voice channeled to foe requiem.

[Shurrikhan]

What content is this that ever requires paeon? If the answer is Final coil, then I'll have to ask you to forgive my ignorance as I have not participated in it yet. In any case, short of final coil, there is nothing, not a single bit of content in the entire game in which a job with invigorate ever needs paeon unless A: it's a giant AoE fest (like pre echo t4) or B: you have screwed up, either by dying, or by not making correct use out of invigorate. Even in the incredibly TP intensive T8, invigorate is more than sufficient to get you through the entire fight. Really, the only jobs that should ever -need- goad are mnk, pld, and war.

Final Coil is exactly where this, and just about everything else, really matters...

Sidenote: my Bard bleeds TP faster than my PLD and WAR (60 spam, 70 every 8 moves/per proc and 2 80s per 7 moves [66.25] >> 70-60-60 spam avg [63.33]; more so in multi-target/multi-DoT situations. The ability for the Nin to goad a bard 2/3s of the time and self 1/3 of the time [2 casters] is about the only way you're going to skip Paeon altogether over a 11+ minute fight. Otherwise, that Bard is going to be Paeoning himself not long after the Monk needs it, and well before the rest.

[Even a Monk will only be at 55.77 avg cost w/o Fracture, which you can modify to 64.86 with GL (no bonus SS)). Though it would be rare to find a Monk w/o SS, they really wouldn't be depleting any faster than a Bard getting plentiful Straighter Shot procs).

SS would be more beneficial if there are no mana issues but it still won't touch CHR or DET's affect on their DPS. With how they do DPS they'll never value SS until an inherent change in their mechanics.

Or if SS itself was changed, such as by affecting Aetherflow CD... among others... *prays*

[Zophar]

I think it's because a lot of people want to play a DPS class with a bow. BRD has extremely high raid wide utility. They sacrifice some DPS for their utility. Some BRD's think that they're DPS should be higher.

I think brd is fine where it's at. If you play the job well, keep your dots up 100% of the time, use all your cooldowns right and aren't loaded down by piles of acc and skill speed instead of det and crit (like all those full auroral brds) you can be right up there with the big boys. Yes, head to head, brd does less dps than the other pure dps jobs, but the ability to move freely without losing anything more than a few auto attacks, tends to edge us back up. It's not uncommon for a brd to be near the top on any fight with a lot of dodging/mechanics, unless you find yourself needing to use ballad.