Which classes do you think need adjustments?

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

They're not the exact same, over half of SMN spell casts are instant vs around 10% of BLM casts.

AM can't be used in the middle of a cast, so you're going to have to be moving out of the death zone anyway, making it extremely situational.

It's roughly the same. If you know the mechanics, you can save a firestarter proc to for movement. Or depending on the content, you can use one to move prematurely to your destination.

Dodging AoEs mid-cast also applies to summoners, mind you. With or without aetherial manipulation. For both classes it means dps loss. Although the dps loss on summoners vary far more than for Black Mage.

[Skeith-Adeline]

snip

If a BLM and a SMN both have to move for 2-3 seconds, who loses more DPS? As somebody mentioned, you've your pet and any pre-existing DoTs ticking + your Ruin 2s. Unless we hold a proc–which already is a DPS loss–or use swiftcast(which you have too), we're losing DPS. We only have Scathe, which is laughable. If we were to make Scathe a viable option for movement as much as a SMN, that'd be... awesome, but OP lol.

Yes we have AM, but unless a party member is where we need to go, we either proc it up or Scathe. Unlike you, the only DPS continuing if we stop casting is Thunder.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

If a BLM and a SMN both have to move for 2-3 seconds, who loses more DPS? As somebody mentioned, you've your pet and any pre-existing DoTs ticking + your Ruin 2s. Unless we hold a proc–which already is a DPS loss–or use swiftcast(which you have too), we're losing DPS. We only have Scathe, which is laughable. If we were to make Scathe a viable option for movement as much as a SMN, that'd be... awesome, but OP lol.

Yes we have AM, but unless a party member is where we need to go, we either proc it up or Scathe. Unlike you, the only DPS continuing if we stop casting is Thunder.

I mentioned in another post that the movement window DPS loss on summoner varies a lot. Worst case scenario would be that all DoTs are falling off, at least one aetherflow stack remaining and Aetherflow about to go off CD. This will result in a 4-5s delay on applying DoTs. Another second for Bio to be applied before you can fester for full potency. While waiting to fester for that you also lose time on Aetherflow which staggers your MP regeneration flow for a bit as well as a dps loss.

But yeah, that's the worst case scenario and would involve the most DPS loss. Least DPS loss would be if all DoTs are freshly on and you don't lose time on Aetherflow.

This same rule applies to Black Mage, however:
If you have a proc ready, you don't lose DPS if you move for 2-3 seconds. If you don't have one ready and Scathe instead, you may lose a little or a lot of potency. This highly depends on whether you are in Umbral Ice or in Astral Fire.

So in both best scenario's for both classes:
Black mages lose no potency at all - They are on GCD from a firestarter proc anyway and can easily move for a bit.
Summoners consume a bit more MP for that 80 potency or simply lose out on that 80 potency.

In worst case scenario's for both classes:
For Black Mage that would be moving without proc. But this also depends on whether you can squeeze in a Scathe or not without hurting your time in Astral Fire.
For Summoner it has a gigantic snowball effect as mentioned above. It's a lot of small DPS losses left and right that will build up a lot of losses in the end.

[Skeith-Adeline]

IF I have a proc ready. IF is the huge word. IF I am holding a Proc, I'm ALREADY losing DPS unless RNG was kind and gave me a proc the instant a mechanic forcing us to move applies. Also, Ruin 2 isn't the only thing going for your mobility. Already mentioned the whole DoTs + Egi thing. I've never had an instance in which all of my dots fell off with in 2-3 seconds, ever, and I can't think of any mechanics that force me to move longer than that.

About the Mana issues, I do think they need an Energydrain buff, but I don't see the problem with using an Hi-Elixir with 2 Energy Drains. Each class must adjust accordingly and if they can't, they player must be focused first before the job.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

IF I have a proc ready. IF is the huge word. IF I am holding a Proc, I'm ALREADY losing DPS unless RNG was kind and gave me a proc the instant a mechanic forcing us to move applies. Also, Ruin 2 isn't the only thing going for your mobility. Already mentioned the whole DoTs + Egi thing. I've never had an instance in which all of my dots fell off with in 2-3 seconds, ever, and I can't think of any mechanics that force me to move longer than that.

About the Mana issues, I do think they need an Energydrain buff, but I don't see the problem with using an Hi-Elixir with 2 Energy Drains. Each class must adjust accordingly and if they can't, they player must be focused first before the job.

That IF applies for summoners as well, Skeith. IF all DoTs are still on during movement and have no need for reapplication. IF you have any Aetherflow stacks remaining and IF Aetherflow is getting offCD or not. Just like how Black Mages have IF-conditions, so do Summoners.

Also, Hi-elixir for Energy Drains? You do know that HP/MP recovery items share a timer with Status boosting potions like X-potions of Intelligence, right? It's a bigger DPS loss to regain 530 MP - HQ X-ether has better mp/CD ratio - than to use an X-int potion.

Edit: I would also like to add that I mentioned both BEST and WORST conditions concerning movement for both classes in my previous post. Read entire posts, not parts that would be beneficial for you or your message you're trying to carry through.

[Xolotl]

IF I have a proc ready. IF is the huge word. IF I am holding a Proc, I'm ALREADY losing DPS unless RNG was kind and gave me a proc the instant a mechanic forcing us to move applies. Also, Ruin 2 isn't the only thing going for your mobility. Already mentioned the whole DoTs + Egi thing. I've never had an instance in which all of my dots fell off with in 2-3 seconds, ever, and I can't think of any mechanics that force me to move longer than that.

About the Mana issues, I do think they need an Energydrain buff, but I don't see the problem with using an Hi-Elixir with 2 Energy Drains. Each class must adjust accordingly and if they can't, they player must be focused first before the job.

Using a hi-elixir / mana pot, would be okay only ( and only if) the said pots didn't share a timer with the stat X-potions... If only they splitted the timer i think i'd be first to eat mana potion all day xD

[dday3six]

Dragoon - Add raid utility

Summoner - Address MP and stacked Spell Speed issues

Ninja - Rework Mudras to allow weaving, let Goad target self

[Zophar]

Ninja - Rework Mudras to allow weaving, let Goad target self

Goad targeting self? NIN already has access to Invigorate. If you're playing smart (and even if you're only playing kinda smart), there is no scenario short of spamming Death Blossom, in which Invigorate + Goad would not equal an unlimited never ending supply of tp. Invigorate alone should be able to keep your tp up through just about any fight in the game if you're using it correctly. Add Goad in there and, well, you've just inherited the melee equivalent of blm's MP pool. As far as the mudra weaving thing, I don't see it being necessary at all. It would be convenient, yeah, but what you gain for giving up that single gcd every 20 seconds (70 seconds of haste, absurdly high potency of raiton, and, well, Suiton/TA) is more than worth it.

[Shurrikhan]

Goad targeting self? NIN already has access to Invigorate. If you're playing smart (and even if you're only playing kinda smart), there is no scenario short of spamming Death Blossom, in which Invigorate + Goad would not equal an unlimited never ending supply of tp.

This is also true of every physical job except a skill speed Monk. I don't see why that should keep the Ninja alone from being unable to receive its Goad. ...Except that it would be the only melee not to require a Bard, but then, what group doesn't bring a Bard, let alone goad it?

[dday3six]

Goad targeting self? NIN already has access to Invigorate. If you're playing smart (and even if you're only playing kinda smart), there is no scenario short of spamming Death Blossom, in which Invigorate + Goad would not equal an unlimited never ending supply of tp. Invigorate alone should be able to keep your tp up through just about any fight in the game if you're using it correctly. Add Goad in there and, well, you've just inherited the melee equivalent of blm's MP pool. As far as the mudra weaving thing, I don't see it being necessary at all. It would be convenient, yeah, but what you gain for giving up that single gcd every 20 seconds (70 seconds of haste, absurdly high potency of raiton, and, well, Suiton/TA) is more than worth it.

With TP cost increases, Goad will be less effective. It was able to stave off Paeon due to TP efficiency, being able to self Goad would continue that.

Being able to weave Mudras would stop latency issues.