PS3 a real problem or not

[JonLuso]

Inventory space was not the reason why PS3 is limited. It's already been said that, by adding more inventory space to everyone, it would pose a problem on the server, resulting in longer load times (via teleports, retainers....think 1.0? Maybe not that hard.)

The only thing that is limited concerning displaying inventories is the way items are represented. They responded to a query in a LftP concerning the way items show-up on player inventories and the like. Users wanted these icons to be changed to words instead and such.

Yoshida responded that, while it was indeed possible to do so and that the servers could allow this to happen, the terms that make up words actually take up more memory to display than the picture icons do, and the PS3, in question, was not able to do this without resulting in stress being produced, much more than simple FPS drops, and this was due to the amount of RAM available.

It is partly for this reason that glamours were made in the form of prisms. They essentially killed 2 birds with 1 stone: in introducing these prisms, they not only made crafters relevant again (for economic-related purposes) but also to allow the PS3 client to allow glamours to be used. In most MMOs, you simply drag items you want glamoured into "vanity slots" that were also on the same window, if not a different one. However, the PS3 cannot display these icons in tandem with current equipped weapons and armor AND cycle through personal/retainer inventories. All of these are already loaded into memory.

In a sense, it's not really a big deal, but they basically had to work AROUND this issue on PS3; so, it's not really a restriction, but, at the root, it may be so.

[Payn]

Inventory space was not the reason why PS3 is limited. It's already been said that, by adding more inventory space to everyone, it would pose a problem on the server, resulting in longer load times (via teleports, retainers....think 1.0? Maybe not that hard.)

Take this with a grain of salt but it was within the last 2 or so months they said that we would not have more inventory space due to data size online. There was also an interview they asked what they meant by that and basically pointed blame at SONY not the consoles, saying it had to do with the online storage allotted them by Sony. The cloud storage limit basically from what I got out of it.
I figured it would be all over here so I didn't think to remember who said it, so it is what it is.


Edit: but yeah they also said it would pose longer loading etc as above

[Tupsi]

We cannot have extra inventory storage and even BEARDS due to data limitations from how the PS3 is holding things back. Then again, my characters don't need beards lol

Incorrect. You can't have beards because they'd have to go back and redo quite a bit of graphical assets - Nothing to do with limitations. Explain why the majority of PC Only MMOs out there has a fairly small character creator? Including in the facial and body hair realm of things?

I'll wait.

By the way, FFXI currently has 320 inventory slots that's actively on your character - It's a PS2 MMORPG.

[JonLuso]

By the way, FFXI currently has 320 inventory slots that's actively on your character - It's a PS2 MMORPG.

Concerning the XI inventory bit, that's actually not true. Only 160 slots are active at one time and only 80 of those are loaded up-front. The other 80 is selectively chosen when you cycle thorough the Mog Sack, Wardrobe, or other in-game inventory, such as in the Mog House or via an NPC that deals with storing leveling gear or AF sets.

The reason for this is that there is an imposed limit on the inventory due to a combination of the available amount of RAM on the PS2 allocated to item inventory AS WELL as the server itself. Both would cause unintended stress if they simply allowed the amount of items displayed to be increased.

For this reason, every time you zone in on a new area, at the top right, there is an item bag icon that loads and tells you when all available item inventories are prepped by the server.

As a side note, the development team wanted to increase the amount of words in the user translation dictionary, but they specifically stated that the PS2's RAM, in question, only allowed a certain amount of words to be pre-loaded into its RAM. That being said, they decided to eliminate rarely-used words and replaced them with Seekers of Adoulin-related terms and such. PC users are also affected by this, as the Dev. Team stated they wanted PS2 users to also deal with all available terms; users on PS2 would not be able to see new terms by PC or 360 users if they gave them only to the latter.

[Shioban]

I'll reiterate though, any limitations that are strictly limited to client end, have no impact in regards to holding back the game.

Clearly you've never developed anything for a PS3 before. They're extremely limited on memory and processing power, it's an absolute nightmare to have to battle, adjust, tweak and CONSTANTLY watch your memory expenditure.

It is horrible when you've discovered that your combination of your; Engine, Game Scene, Systems and Assets have gone WAY over the limit and you have to cut back, remove and adjust.

THIS includes complex and interesting mechanics. A great example;

Leviathan;

Flat Ocean.
Still Boat.
Basic Particle Effects.

Instead of exploring the opportunities of a complex, rocky and generally quite visceral experience they've had to go with something as bog-standard and simple to support all platforms.
The memory constraint on what can be done at once in the scene SEVERELY limits your creativity in creating any content.

Inventory space was not the reason why PS3 is limited. It's already been said that, by adding more inventory space to everyone, it would pose a problem on the server, resulting in longer load times (via teleports, retainers....think 1.0? Maybe not that hard.)

Sadly it would be an issue, although we're no longer using a text-list based inventory and a grid-based icon inventory which uses less memory the UI is already pushing it's limits. Currently we have four inventory tabs in separate windows because of this memory constraint. (Which is why only the PC/PS4 get an expanded inventory).

We cannot have extra inventory storage and even BEARDS due to data limitations from how the PS3 is holding things back. Then again, my characters don't need beards lol

Beards aren't a PS3 limitation. It's a character-data limitation, as SE wish to keep character data as low as possible, new character data is generally avoided (for now).
The beards themselves are just a simple addition of topology ontop of the character body (hair does the same thing).

Those graphical assets take up memory. Which the ps3 is very low on. Add too many beards and now the average character requires more polys and therefore more memory. Graphical assets must take up ram to be used so any assets that add to memory directly contribute to the problem. Try to remember that they shrunk miq'ote butts for two reason. One was so that making new gear was easier across races, but if I remember correctly it was also mentioned that it helped put more on screen at once. That would be due to fewer poly's being used. Beards would be like bringing those butts back..

The topology for character buttocks wasn't changed that drastically, the lighting system used in 1.23 consequentially fully light characters no matter where they were, this complimented the normal maps on the character and the ever so slightly higher polygon count. And I stress EVER so slight.


As for beards, that's a complete lie. Currently model data isn't an issue, the character model data limitation imposed on the PS3 client would simply forbid the character to render as it does currently should the cap be reached.

The very slight change in topology helped a bit, most of the retopologising was done on environmental articles, the characters/gear have remained virtually unchanged (from what I can see of the old model data).

The question was what the DEVS specifically said was limited due to ps3. I personally am sure there's a way around it however I'm pretty sure they just have to weigh, is it POSSIBLE? Sure.. If it takes TONS of time to optimize, is it worth it? No? Ok skip it. That's what I presume the conversation is like, and if they're priority based id expect nothing less. It's not a bad thing.

Open World Dungeons weren't completely a PS3 concern, from what we were told they just simply didn't add any, they preferred to design dungeons as instanced content as opposed to open world content in 2.0, however took feedback from players for future expansion content into "consideration".

This wouldn't be a problem for a PS3 as there are various ways around it, such as simply adding in a zone-line such as;

Central Shroud > (The Mun-Tuy Cellars - Open Dungeon) > East Shroud.

It would simply act as an area to travel into or through, simply another area.

The PS3 is NOT the fault here, it is almost entirely a design choice by the development teams.



1.23's open world dungeons were just trash mobs you could find in the field an the occasional NM, there wasn't much appeal to them for 2.0's leveling style.

[Mogi]

Yes it dose hold you as a player back how can i tell? for one you will always take longer to load then players from pc or ps4. 2 You will always see less players around then pc or ps4 users. 3 You are missing out on a lot of the graphic design this game has 4 you will lag more in fates then others and or anything where is there a lot of stuff going on or players events hunts this is all facts and i know because i use to play on the ps3 and when i came to ps4 i was like OMG

[Payn]

If I remember right, the limitations they specifically mentioned (not ones they hinted at), were inventory limitations, glamours not being able to be set per gearset, not being able to have lists for inventory, multiple color dyes per item, zones not being "wide and open", no open world dungeons. I THINK there were a few others but I don't remember them enough to quote them.

As for inventory space being limited I find it weird they blamed PS3 then threw more retainers in as added costs. So supposedly we won't have any MORE retainers due to that I guess?

[Felis]

If I remember right, the limitations they specifically mentioned (not ones they hinted at), were inventory limitations, glamours not being able to be set per gearset, not being able to have lists for inventory, multiple color dyes per item, zones not being "wide and open", no open world dungeons. I THINK there were a few others but I don't remember them enough to quote them.

Sure?
Many of them seem to be independent from the PS3. Like the open-world dungeon. There is really no difference between a open-world dungeon and a open-world field. So even with no PS3 there would be still no open-world dungeon.

[Payn]

Sure?
Many of them seem to be independent from the PS3. Like the open-world dungeon. There is really no difference between a open-world dungeon and a open-world field. So even with no PS3 there would be still no open-world dungeon.

The question was what the DEVS specifically said was limited due to ps3. I personally am sure there's a way around it however I'm pretty sure they just have to weigh, is it POSSIBLE? Sure.. If it takes TONS of time to optimize, is it worth it? No? Ok skip it. That's what I presume the conversation is like, and if they're priority based id expect nothing less. It's not a bad thing.

[MissBrunHilda]

I very, very happily played on the PS3 since 2.0's launch. I still like a lot of aspects of it. Until recently, I never really considered how differently things render between the systems. I played briefly on a laptop and didn't notice anything until I'd wandered into my house.

I was very used to seeing this:


But then I saw this on a PS4 render:


I was startled by the difference. I then started to consider what else was different. Other than the superfluous "boob jiggle", what else was drastically improved over the PS3?

* The Slime King Crown doesn't "wiggle" on the PS3, it stands stationary on your head.
* The S-Rank mobs, as well as Odin and Behemoth still don't render very quickly. (Even with all of the workarounds.)
* Clothing doesn't "swish" the same way between the systems. (I had never seen the Spring Skirt swish before!)
* The load times into instances and between teleports was much, much faster.

I know that these are silly little things to compare, but they made a large enough difference to me personally that it really changed how I viewed the PS3 and its limitations.

Edit:
Looking between these now... I was initially focused solely on the snowflake outlines, but I failed to notice how much more texture EVERYTHING had now...