Alternatives to "nerfing" ninja

[dday3six]

A defense buff to make up for the near lack of magic defense. Tank armor has the best, and most even, defenses in the game with the rest of the armors having varying mixes of physical and magical defense. Melee DDs tend to have the worst magic defense (alongside a low physical defense). It's almost laughable to expect a lancer to take a magic blast to the face and live... which is the point of the buff. It's not a buff specific to lancers, it's more a buff to their armor.

They are getting a DPS buff too, not just Magic Defense.

[Craiger]

1.) Ninja does more damage than they should, cause the effect of Trick Attack is so big that you have to balance it out by having slightly lower DPS yourself. It has nothing to do with difficulty of the jobs when they balance DPS, cause players with the same skill-level will get better overall results with Ninja.

2.) Ninja has the lowest TP costs of them all, your TP regen theory doesn't change the fact that they have less problems with TP. Why wouldn't they change this?

All I see is excuses from people everywhere... It's not like they are making NIN useless, just in line with the others.

I bet it's just a tiny nerf, and DRG on the other hand, should get a really big Buff, cause with the least amount of utility in the game, they should be up there within reach of Nin and Mnk if it's to make sense...

[Mardel]

Step 1) Wait

Step 2) Read patch notes on 12/9

Step 3) PLAY the game

Step 4) You now have my permission to complain

Right then we can wait a year for fixes like on drg. Solid game plan.

@ Craiger (post above this)

1. Your mindset is wrong because currently dragon kick is near necessary for T13 magic damage reduction. (Not getting nerfed)
2. Low TP costs are actually an illusion. The reason Ninja is TP efficient is because of MUDRA LAG (when you have little mudra lag your tp still burns through)
3. Skill speed was somewhat useful because of the tp efficiency.
4. Take away the low TP costs and you take away goad utility. If they adjust the tp costs upward then paeon needs to be sung for you then goad is only useful for a death recovery.

Finally the phrase, "In line with others." Don't make me laugh, if only all melee got dragon kick utility, a 15% healing buff (mantra), top dps, and decent tp efficiency. If ninja could outparse an actually good monk every time; I could see the issue, but this isn't the case. Thus changes weren't really necessary.

[RyuDragnier]

A defense buff to make up for the near lack of magic defense. Tank armor has the best, and most even, defenses in the game with the rest of the armors having varying mixes of physical and magical defense. Melee DDs tend to have the worst magic defense (alongside a low physical defense). It's almost laughable to expect a lancer to take a magic blast to the face and live... which is the point of the buff. It's not a buff specific to lancers, it's more a buff to their armor.

They're removing positionals and buffing attacks on DRG. So why do NIN need to be nerfed after that again? Because these changes alone will take DRG higher than NIN in damage, and possibly have them compete with MNK for top DPS. There's no point in nerfing NIN if they're going to buff DRG, it'd be like nerfing BLM while buffing SMN, it makes no sense.

[Dree-Elle]

Has anyone even considered that the nerf to NIN might result in an (albeit unintentional?) nerf for BRD as well? NIN blows through more TP, calls for Paeon are more frequent. Goad can only be used so often (and usually only by request, because NO TP METER). Bard's DPS drops.

It's no use continuing to try and force BRD into a support role that does not exist; in all the content I've done, BRDs never Paeon, Foe infrequently, and Ballad only after being begged (often multiple times), with the excuse being "B-BUT MAH DEEPZ!"

*becomes Madame Not Responding To This Thread, ollies out*

[ChaozK]

They're removing positionals and buffing attacks on DRG. So why do NIN need to be nerfed after that again? Because these changes alone will take DRG higher than NIN in damage, and possibly have them compete with MNK for top DPS. There's no point in nerfing NIN if they're going to buff DRG, it'd be like nerfing BLM while buffing SMN, it makes no sense.

Because the devs probably think NIN is too strong in comparison to the whole roster of dps rather than just DRG is my guess. If it was just about DRG they could've just buffed DRG but since they are going the route of nerfing NIN, it seems to suggest they are unhappy with where NIN stands in the dps rankings.
Not saying thats actually the case or my own opionion but thats probably their reasoning.

Edit: Another guess is that they didnt want DRG to be close to or on par with MNK but would've needed to in order to make them as desirable as NIN. So they went the middle route of buffing DRG a bit and nerfing NIN a bit.

[Mardel]

Has anyone even considered that the nerf to NIN might result in an (albeit unintentional?) nerf for BRD as well? NIN blows through more TP, calls for Paeon are more frequent. Goad can only be used so often (and usually only by request, because NO TP METER). Bard's DPS drops.

It's no use continuing to try and force BRD into a support role that does not exist; in all the content I've done, BRDs never Paeon, Foe infrequently, and Ballad only after being begged (often multiple times), with the excuse being "B-BUT MAH DEEPZ!"

I agree like I've said ninja becoming more tp inefficient results in hindrances all around, specifically on bard. Bard already has to baby sit in new coil with ballads muchless have time to gimp their damage further with paeon for the tp starved melee.

Because the devs probably think NIN is too strong in comparison to the whole roster of dps rather than just DRG is my guess. If it was just about DRG they could've just buffed DRG but since they are going the route of nerfing NIN, it seems to suggest they are unhappy with where NIN stands in the dps rankings.
Not saying thats actually the case or my own opionion but thats probably their reasoning.

Edit: Another guess is that they didnt want DRG to be close to or on par with MNK but would've needed to in order to make them as desirable as NIN. So they went the middle route of buffing DRG a bit and nerfing NIN a bit.

The devs can't even do as much damage as a lot players on monk and ninja and yet they want to nerf it <___<;
Does this mean if we post enough numbers of super high monk damage it will get nerfed too?

A silver lining is.... JP THREAD
That is 1 of 2 threads (the one i linked being 40 pages) of people complaining about the incoming nerfs and reasoning for it, the nerfs might be retracted or severely minimal at this point.

[Elazu]

1.) Ninja does more damage than they should, cause the effect of Trick Attack is so big that you have to balance it out by having slightly lower DPS yourself. It has nothing to do with difficulty of the jobs when they balance DPS, cause players with the same skill-level will get better overall results with Ninja.

2.) Ninja has the lowest TP costs of them all, your TP regen theory doesn't change the fact that they have less problems with TP. Why wouldn't they change this?

All I see is excuses from people everywhere... It's not like they are making NIN useless, just in line with the others.

I bet it's just a tiny nerf, and DRG on the other hand, should get a really big Buff, cause with the least amount of utility in the game, they should be up there within reach of Nin and Mnk if it's to make sense...

That's the thing though. Ninja is in line with the others. The one not in line is Dragoon, which is getting buffed.

[PArcher]

Bard nerf? How? Just because a nin can goad a mnk or Drg? What about the brd's own tp? Our BRD sings as much for himself as he does for our mnk and drg; a nin goading a melee won't stop paeon use one bit

[Barboron]

Alternative to nerfing NIN:

Players could actually play the other DPS classes well so they actually have good DPS rather than complaining that other classes are higher.