Alternatives to "nerfing" ninja

[Mardel]

So, after playing drg/mnk/brd in scob progressionm, and now monk/ninja in fcob. I cannot really agree with the tp changed being made to Ninja. The reason I cannot agree with any tp changes being made is due to the fact that when playing Ninja PROPERLY and having a good connection on mudra your tp doesn't get too much time to tick back. What this means is, Ninja needs HIGH Sustain to bring out their utility in Goad because without an amazing sustain Goad = useless. Why goad anyone if paeon will be nessecary anyways? (Unless you let ninja's goad themselves in which case mess with the tp as you wish.)

Now, I can see them reducing some of the "burst" brought by raiton, the 400 potency trick attack, and perhaps scale back aeolian edge by 10 potency. It can be a bit crazy when you line everything up perfectly w/ a pot.


MONK SKILL ARGUEMENT: The monk "skill cap" is a lie. It is at times much trickier to ensure you perfectly time everything on Ninja; even current DRG is trickier than monk.

TLDR: If you adjust the ninja's damage to be lower, then the tp usage needs to be as low as possible to justify it's utility side. Monk isn't tough to play, their battle team is just bad.

Side note: If Gun class = piercing and IF we get a red mage (rapier piercing) in 3.0. Dragoon will become the new "ninja" and the cycle will simply repeat. With dragoon being too strong and "easy".


~PLEASE LIST ALTERNATIVES TO NERFS BELOW~ Nerfs in games should be avoided, other classes should be instead.

[kyuven]

i get the feeling they're just going to increase the TP cost of Dancing Edge to 60 instead of 50, and, as you said, probably lower TA and Raiton's base potency by a little bit.
IMO TA's potency could be nerfed a bit with no real overall effect, since it's not the damage itself you're going for when you use it, it's the debuff.

[cookiecutter]

As someone pointed out earlier they said they were going to "adjust" ninja's tp cost. For all we know they could actually lessen their tp cost to while reducing their damage output. That's what I'm hoping for anyway otherwise goad was dumb idea on their part. In terms of skill I'd say dragoons are hardest melee to play optimally, followed by monks, and then ninjas.

[jlewiss]

So, after playing drg/mnk/brd in scob progressionm, and now monk/ninja in fcob. I cannot really agree with the tp changed being made to Ninja. The reason I cannot agree with any tp changes being made is due to the fact that when playing Ninja PROPERLY and having a good connection on mudra your tp doesn't get too much time to tick back. What this means is, Ninja needs HIGH Sustain to bring out their utility in Goad because without an amazing sustain Goad = useless. Why goad anyone if paeon will be nessecary anyways? (Unless you let ninja's goad themselves in which case mess with the tp as you wish.)

Now, I can see them reducing some of the "burst" brought by raiton, the 400 potency trick attack, and perhaps scale back aeolian edge by 10 potency. It can be a bit crazy when you line everything up perfectly w/ a pot.


MONK SKILL ARGUEMENT: The monk "skill cap" is a lie. It is at times much trickier to ensure you perfectly time everything on Ninja; even current DRG is trickier than monk.

TLDR: If you adjust the ninja's damage to be lower, then the tp usage needs to be as low as possible to justify it's utility side. Monk isn't tough to play, their battle team is just bad.

Side note: If Gun class = piercing and IF we get a red mage (rapier piercing) in 3.0. Dragoon will become the new "ninja" and the cycle will simply repeat. With dragoon being too strong and "easy".


~PLEASE LIST ALTERNATIVES TO NERFS BELOW~ Nerfs in games should be avoided, other classes should be instead.

I don't see the point in playing the if game when it comes to what classes they COULD release the fact of the matter is any time a new class is released it is likely going to be either slightly over or slightly underpowered and will thusly get adjustments in the following patches. Play any online game ever and you'll experience this, it really isn't anything new.

[Mardel]

Ya I agree with what you all say. I can understand them wanting to make an adjustment however I think given their battle team's lack of foreseeing this I almost feel they should come forward with the changes before patch for community reaction and number crunching. This way they could make adjustments due to feedback before finalization.

[Eisengrim]

Ya I agree with what you all say. I can understand them wanting to make an adjustment however I think given their battle team's lack of foreseeing this I almost feel they should come forward with the changes before patch for community reaction and number crunching. This way they could make adjustments due to feedback before finalization.

This would make sense. Unfortunately SE doesn't roll that way (making sense that is).

I'm guessing they're going to make a change that they expect to only affect the best ninjas out there with the DPS, only to have "unforeseen and unexpected" results, such as lowering low end ninja's damage.

I can't think of alternatives, but I'd be happy if they fixed the mudra lag if they're going to nerf ninja. My DPS is usually slowed down in raids due to mudras taking sooo much longer than they should to register, if the register at all before I hit the ninjutsu button.

[Gilraen]

Here's the thing with the 'nerf' to rogue, there's only two ways to approach it. Buff the current DD classes, or 'nerf' rogue. Given that the rest of the classes have had 2~ years of balancing against eachother and their intended playstyles, any changes they make would have to be for every class which would require not only balancing against rogue but also eachother again. Alot of work. Rogue, on the other hand, can easily just be balanced against the DDs given the class is, itself, a DD and the other DDs are already balanced against the rest of the classes. Given this, it's only sensible to 'nerf' rogue, bring it more in line with the classes we have.

[axemtitanium]

Step 1) Wait

Step 2) Read patch notes on 12/9

Step 3) PLAY the game

Step 4) You now have my permission to complain

[dday3six]

Here's the thing with the 'nerf' to rogue, there's only two ways to approach it. Buff the current DD classes, or 'nerf' rogue. Given that the rest of the classes have had 2~ years of balancing against eachother and their intended playstyles, any changes they make would have to be for every class which would require not only balancing against rogue but also eachother again. Alot of work. Rogue, on the other hand, can easily just be balanced against the DDs given the class is, itself, a DD and the other DDs are already balanced against the rest of the classes. Given this, it's only sensible to 'nerf' rogue, bring it more in line with the classes we have.

That is fine until you remember Dragoon is getting a buff.

[Gilraen]

That is fine until you remember Dragoon is getting a buff.

A defense buff to make up for the near lack of magic defense. Tank armor has the best, and most even, defenses in the game with the rest of the armors having varying mixes of physical and magical defense. Melee DDs tend to have the worst magic defense (alongside a low physical defense). It's almost laughable to expect a lancer to take a magic blast to the face and live... which is the point of the buff. It's not a buff specific to lancers, it's more a buff to their armor.