Is the Ninja nerf really needed?

[Zumi]

I got to ask why lower ninjas damage and make their TP moves cost more? In the game right now monk has the ability to do more dps then ninja. DRG are getting a buff, mdef raised, positional requirements for dots and buffs changed. DRG will be in a better spot then it is today.

With monk being unchanged less of a reason to bring a ninja now, and they will now need the bard to sing paeon because of their increased tp costs. Which in turn lowers bards dps before when they didn't have to because the ninja could always goad the monk in your group so they never run out of tp.

Raid groups would be more likely to run 2 monks rather then monk nin or monk drg, because they still are the strongest melee dps.

[Volsung]

I would have honestly thought leave nin as it is
and give drg some buffs. They'd all be around the
same spot after that. nin has some utility, monk
is king of long fight dps, and drg just needs some
aid.

Having said that, i'm fine with tp increase cost, not
like you run out of it unless spamming deathblossom

[Fynlar]

MNK feels rather pathetic right now compared to my NIN, personally. The only time they feel comparable is when GL3 is up and positionals can be maintained, and due to the nature of this game, it often can't be kept up and positionals are often messed up.

Nerf is unsurprising to me.

[ElHeggunte]

Ninja is getting tuned because they were doing damage a little out of scope compared to everyone else. It's the same reason Dragoon is getting buffed. Monk is remaining unchanged, because while they can do great single-target damage, there are very few fights where they are able to sit there and whale away a proper rotation uninterrupted (which is what leads to that great damage). I wont even get into the whole issue of ramp-up time and the loss of Greased Lightning in short fights and battles with frequent intermissions.

[Alukah]

It's a good nerf, they gave ninja a high max potential damage thinking it would be like monk, that only a few skilled individuals could reach it under certain circumstances, but they just were extremely clueless, ninja gameplay is quite easy and many people can reach that near max potential.

Quoting myself from another thread:

I think it's more of a theoretical DPS vs practical DPS, you know your DPS will vary greatly depending on the mechanics you have to deal with, perhaps on paper NIN has higher (or the highest) potential DPS.

Actually I'm pretty sure it's this, in the live letter pretty much said the potential DPS was set high because of gameplay difficulty, as in they didn't intend many people to achieve that (just like monk) but many people are achieving it, so they're lowering the upper limit.

It honestly didn't make any sense for NIN to be on par (or higher) than MNK even if it's on paper, when they have to do much less to maintain constant dmg, huton and venom uptime is 100% even during mechs, while MNKs can lose GL3, plus MNK needs GL3 for dmg buff while NIN already got the same dmg buff through increased base action potency.

That class was too unbalanced IMO.

I'm comparing similar abilities between NIN and MNK, so likewise twin snakes and GL3 (the equivalent of huton + venom + high combo potency) aren't the whole part of the story for MNK, but they do play a major role and you cannot deny MNK has a much harder time keeping GL3 and twin snakes up while dealing with mechs, compared to NIN being able to keep huton up pretty much always.

We could go further comparing blunt/slashing debuffs, other debuffs, dots and actions out of cooldown, but my main focus was damage and skill speed buff. Ninja has a lower skill cap than Monk and their theoretical max damage should represent this.

Also...

Raid groups would be more likely to run 2 monks rather then monk nin or monk drg, because they still are the strongest melee dps.

MNK was the strongest DPS from the moment it was buffed until NIN came out, how many statics did you see replacing DRG with MNK? There's no reason to believe that will happen now.

[Elazu]

MNK feels rather pathetic right now compared to my NIN, personally. The only time they feel comparable is when GL3 is up and positionals can be maintained, and due to the nature of this game, it often can't be kept up and positionals are often messed up.

Nerf is unsurprising to me.

Highest dps in the game feels pathetic?

There was no need to nerf Ninja at all. I don't really get the reasoning either. Why is Monk allowed to be the undisputed king of the dps charts for rather low effort while having a -10% int debuff, but Ninja gets banhammered? Where are the Monk nerfs to keep the job in line with the others?

[TessaJalloh]

We ninja are pretty OP, a slight adjustment is perhaps in order just to keep the other classes from being pushed out. Just so long as it doesn't become another Warrior vs Paladin buff/nerf battle like 1.0

[dday3six]

Increasing TP costs, though it effects Goad's ability to stave off Bard playing Paeon or decreasing DPS might have been okay alone. Together I find it pretty harsh for Ninja.

I would have preferred bringing Dragoon up and adding to it's utility without altering Ninja, and thus creating a situation of melee choice based on what utility is most beneficial to the raid.

Unless SE adds a massive DPS increase to Dragoon, allowing it to topple Monk's throne, or adds utility to their kit. Monk once again will be the go-to melee DPS if Ninja falls behind both Monk and Dragoon. That is a step backwards, and I fear that is what is going to happen.

[cookiecutter]

I think the damage nerf is acceptable but I don't agree with the increased tp costs. Wasn't the whole point of goad and ninja's lower tp usage, a way to allow bards to sing paeon less? I don't see the point of goad if the ninja is going to need a paeon before the monk the party. Also its not like ninja's were replacing bards in fcob anyway. Maybe at one point you can stack melee when you outgear content but by that time you should be able to beat it with a variety of group make ups.

[Fynlar]

Highest dps in the game feels pathetic?

My NIN was beating it at a much lower level. *shrug*

Again, MNK's only comparable under ideal circumstances, which rarely exist in this game. NIN is pretty much not reliant on "circumstances"