Is the Ninja nerf really needed?

[hallena]

"One". Alright, keep dreaming. I can tell you don't play Monk in anything.

it's no secret i don't play monk, i'm just used to seeing our monk be at the top with our ninja on most fights

[Fayto]

it's no secret i don't play monk, i'm just used to seeing our monk be at the top with our ninja on most fights

That is because your Monk is a good Monk. It takes a good Monk to play the Monk at their potential. It takes a lot of factors to play well, being comfortable with the fight, knowing the timers on your buffs/debuffs, knowing when you can go in to get in a few extra hits before mechanics like T9's Thermionic Beam happens, etc.
Ninja requires none of this, because all their power comes from a passive buff that is always on and a Ninjutsu that does not need to interact with the enemy, they can do good DPS without being a good Ninja.

[hallena]

That is because your Monk is a good Monk. It takes a good Monk to play the Monk at their potential. It takes a lot of factors to play well, being comfortable with the fight, knowing the timers on your buffs/debuffs, knowing when you can go in to get in a few extra hits before mechanics like T9's Thermionic Beam happens, etc.
Ninja requires none of this, because all their power comes from a passive buff that is always on and a Ninjutsu that does not need to interact with the enemy, they can do good DPS without being a good Ninja.

It's not good overall balance then if class skill ceilling affect its maximum potential dps in a game where enrage timer exist. Why not have a group of monk/monk/bard/blm. Why even have ninja, dragoon or summoner when there are superior class out there?
A good player should be able to reach more or less the same amount of dps with whatever class he's playing, Not be punished for picking a class that is slightly easier to play

We might aswell nerf paladin into the ground because of how god awfully braindead they are compared to warrior

[Naelle]

Nobody knows what the numbers will be stop complaining until then.

[RyuDragnier]

So monk shouldn't be nerfed because one fight out of 2million they aren't at the top?
Brb making a thread about blm buff because of how blm unfriend T11 is

More like most of them. It's rare for us to stay on the top of the bar, simply because GL is a fickle beast that requires absolute timing on occasions when it comes to mechanics, especially in the primal fights where we are almost guaranteed to lose GL often in most of them. Coil is even worse from T5 on up just due to the mechanics of the fights. T8 I admit is the rare occasion where we can become DPS gods, but even then our TP consumption will bring that to a screeching halt since we'll go through TP faster than Invigorate can come off cooldown. I just described most of endgame right there, that's why they don't do anything with MNKs for endgame, we're perfectly balanced atm.

[dday3six]

Nobody knows what the numbers will be stop complaining until then.

Why, numbers are hotfix. SE could change their mind about the numbers between now and 12/9 and actually be able to change it. At any rate, nothing is wrong with voicing concern or disapproval.

[Velox]

Just remember that, no matter how long you've played NIN and how well you think you know the job...there is someone at SE who has played it 6+ months before you (before it was even announced) and knows it a LOT better. If SE says there is a performance disparity, there is. It may be minor, but it exists, and that's something we all have to accept.

[Alukah]

Monk outdps ninja.
However monk should also get a nerf

MAX potential gated behind a SKILL CAP.

The max potential of Monk can only be reached in very few circumstances and only by those who know how to play their class well.

The max potential of Ninja can be reached with little difficulty, a lower skill cap, it's too rewarding compared to Monk.

If suddenly all MNK players get too good and start reaching their max potential with ease (it won't happen) then yeah they could get nerfed as well, but as for now they are basing balance on the average potential the average player can reach.

And you think the same is not true of Ninja?

It is not true about ninja and SE has metrics to prove it, they never balance classes without analyzing the metrics, when NIN was first released it was just all based on theoretic stuff, now they have good numbers after many people started to do content with NIN.

Explaining this with percents using MNK as a base, MNK max damage = 100%, most people are be able to do 70% of that potential, NIN max damage = 90-95% of MNK, most people are be able to get to 80%.

On paper: MNK 100% - NIN 90% of MNK's max
In practice (using an average player as example): MNK 70% - NIN 80% of MNK's max

Note these are made up numbers, just being used as a quick example.

You guys are extremely retarded when it comes to Monk. Yes, Monk has the highest DPS IF they can keep up GL3 and keep punching the enemy. However, there is actually very few fights where we can do that. The Avatar is the only one I can think of at the present time and even then Allagan Field if it chooses us makes up stop attacking. WE have to interact with the enemy to gain our power and keep our power. Ninja does not, they get everything for FREE.

Exactly, a MNK actually has to work their rear to get good damage and may not even be possible depending on the situation, but NIN has a higher (nearly permanent) uptime of all those benefits MNK can easily lose.

[Eardstapa]

This thread is making me laugh. Ninja has a rather high burst, and a rather high sustain. Monk has a average burst with perfect balance, and an exceptional sustain, but it relies on keeping GL3 and your tank not spinning bosses. Final coil is not the only content that matters, and if you look closely at all three of the new expert dungeons, ninja is severely outperforming DRG and MNK due to the movement and fact tanks unwittingly spin the hell out of those bosses.

Stop acting like coil is the only content in this freaking game that matters... SE has the data they need, and they will adjust it accordingly.

[Viridiana]

Just remember that, no matter how long you've played NIN and how well you think you know the job...there is someone at SE who has played it 6+ months before you (before it was even announced) and knows it a LOT better. If SE says there is a performance disparity, there is. It may be minor, but it exists, and that's something we all have to accept.

That's extremely, extremely doubtful. These are the same testers who were somehow surprised by PLD surviving in BCoB by using its abilities.